Listen to tape 1
(approx. 1 hour)
16 November 2000 - Tape 1 of 2
Right, this is William Allan on Thursday 16 November 2000 interviewed by Ina Bertrand at Mt Alexander Lodge, Mt Alexander Road, Essendon.
So, sit comfortably and tell me about your early life, about where you were born and you family.
Well, I was born in Bega on the far south coast of New South Wales and at the age of about 6 I went with my family out to Upper Brogo - 25 miles away from Bega where grandpa - my grandfather owned a second property and my father was to manage it for him.
At Riverview Station, Upper Brogo and eh 1908 the Americans visited Sydney in a big way with their navy, the Great White Fleet.
Right, I know.
And eh of course I got hold of the magazines and I was very interested in reading up there, the history of the American navy and I must have got the idea of wanting to join the navy eventually. My father was very much against it, he said, "I am not signing your papers" . I was only a boy - about 9 years old at the time.
Anyhow it was a great influence on me, the visit of the Great White Fleet from America. And eh eventually when I turned about 14 I had to go and do a small exam in Bega, reading and writing and eh that went off all right ..
So you …
.. and the next thing I went to Sydney (excuse me) and eh with the object in view of joining the navy.
Now, how did you get to Sydney? Did your parents help you do that?
Eh, look I don’t know, I went to Bermagui and the Illawarra South Coast Steam Navigation used to run up and down the New South Wales Coast at the time and I was introduced to the captain of the Merimbula … Captain O’Connor, by my uncle by marriage, Mr Bell. And anyhow, I had an aunt in Mosman in Sydney and I went to … they took care of me.
Right.
Pending me being sent for to join the navy.
Right.
And the training ship Tingira at that time had to go under fumigation and the existing boys on board were sent to the quarantine station down here in Victoria, South Head (Sydney) and Rabbit Island on the Hawkesbury River, and I had to wait and I eventually was taken to Rushcutters Bay where I engaged, signed on for 7 years after the age of 18, and I was only 14 years and 9 months old.
Were there other young lads doing this too?
Um. Oh yes, oh yes. The Tingira was a training ship, previously the Sobrano I was given to understand.
Right.
This is a [not clear]. Anyhow, she was the naval training ship for future personnel of the fleet. And eh, I signed on for 7 years after the age of 18, which is a commitment of 10 years.
That’s a long … at that age, that’s a lot to do. Tell me about the training, what kind of training, how did they train you?
Well you had to do gunnery training, rifle training and seamanship education. You had an instructor especially adapted to your class and it meant quite a long time in learning sea .., handling boats and doing all that sort of thing, which they should have now. Well of course they haven't now, it is all joining … direct entry sort of thing.
Did you get a general education as well as your naval training?
Yes, there was education. There was school teachers there as well.
Right, what subjects did you study?
Oh I just forget, it was general teaching.
Right, did you do the ordinary exams that they do at school?
I might mention that my mother, prior to marriage, was a governess to the Wood family at Yarranung, near Bega, and she saw them all through their educational life, teaching them piano, how to sing and everything. And luckily, when we moved out to Upper Brogo - in 1906 I think it was or 05, there was no school there at all. So I was fortunate in having a mother that was highly educated and she taught me, the pothooks etc., you know …
Yes.
..until later on they got a little school there. There was 13 students and eh you just … . Buin Buin was the district, Upper Brogo and eh the first teacher we had there was named Anderson. He wasn’t there very long and then after that the teacher’s name was Jack Greenland and he was a dedicated teacher and very good and eh when I decided to join the navy I had to go, as I told you, this examination, health and a bit of writing …
Uha
I went to Sydney … and eventually the training ship was clear, had been fumigated and was clear and the classes started up again.
Did you have to have a medical examination as well as a school examination … ?
Oh yes. And also in the navy, Garden Island in Sydney. Pardon me.
Can you remember what that was like, what the medical examination was like?
Um.
Can you describe the medical examination?
Oh well the doctor … a general examination over the body and eh whether you were literate and all that sort of thing.
I see.
You had to be completely sound, you know, to be … join up.
Were you a very large kid? Were you a tall boy for 14?
No, not really, I don’t think I increased my height much over the years, but eh … anyhow, eventually I went to Rushcutters Bay in Sydney, which was a naval establishment and signed on for 7 years after the age of 18. And that is what, as I told you, I was only 14 years and 9 months old. And joined the training ship in Rose Bay Sydney, the Tingira was moored there permanently, and the training ship was a good idea to teach you seamanship ready for going to active service and eh after, I think it was about 12 or 15 months, I was drafted with my class to the HMAS Encounter, a cruiser of 5,600 tonnes, presented to Australia by the Royal Navy on the handover, on the establishment of an Australian navy and eh at that time there were a lot of troop ships going to the Middle East and the Encounter was convoying troops to Colombo - about 10 ships - New Zealand ships as well, and then would come back and get another convoy, etc.
When we came back we were getting serviced in Melbourne - at the old pier in Melbourne, Port Melbourne, and eh news came through that a British freighter called Cumberland had an explosive - they didn’t know whether it was internal or external at the time -
Um
… but in Sydney the wharfies called themselves I.W.W., Independent Workers of the World, and the immediate thoughts came back that they had planted the bomb in the ship, but that was not so. We went round, straight round to Gabo Island and there was the Cumberland beached on Green Cape to save her sinking ..
Um
And eventually they got the Illawarra Companies and Merimbula steamer down to try and patch up the … where the explosion had happened. They found out it was an external explosion, not internal. In other words, you’d struck a mine.
Right.
Now, that started off a great story of hunting which we thought was the German raider Wolfe by name and she was well armed and was a mine layer, had been laying mines in the trade routes, particularly round the Cape where the shipping would proceed and apparently that is what did happen and of course then a search was set up to see if we could find the German raider that had done these things and the next we heard was the … an inter island steamer, Burns Philp, Mercina by name radioed Rabaul that she had 300 tonnes of a … E.T.A. - expected time of arrival - would be the next day. Well the Mercina never arrived at Rabaul at all.
So the big hunt was then put on around the Pacific to see if they could find the German culprit.
Well, we must have done, I would say a few 100,000 miles hunting for the German raider. We never ever found the Wolfe - she had proceeded and sunk several ships we found out after, and took off, eh acquired food and coal or whatever may be, so that she could proceed with her business. And we did find on Napier Island, south of Tahiti, there was another German raider, the Seeadler and the crew were trying to careen the Seeadler and she got out of control, there was a very strong tide running there, a narrow entrance to a large lake and what the Germans did, they set fire to her, she had fixed ammunition, there were two 4 inch guns on the foc'sle, and the couldn’t get her off so they set fire to her and she was just like a colander … the explo … fixed ammunition, well the explosions had just blown holes all through her.
What did the crew do?
Well, as far as I can tell you, apparently they had 2 lifeboats, they took possession of the plantation managers’ huts on the island, coconut plantations and must have lived on eh ... can't think … anyhow there were all sorts of shells.
Oh shellfish, living on shellfish ..
Shellfish, yeah and eh eventually on the Tongan Island, near the Friendly Islands of Tonga, it was reported that there was a strange open boat with a machine gun situated on the bow … they were doing fishing … and eh in Suva there was the inter-island steamer Hamrow and they did the … the rig up to make it look like a gun and eventually found this open boat fishing and this was the captain of the Seeadler, and some of his crew and he surrendered and they took him into captivity and he was interned at Auckland, New Zealand and eventually escaped from there.
Right.
Got a yacht of some sort and got away. Later on after the war he came to Sydney and was interviewed as captain of a German freighter. A very strong man, tearing telephone books to pieces and all this sort of thing.
Can you tell me … talk a little while about what it was like living on the ship, what was the ship like? You said the Encounter was a cruiser?
Oh yes, she was a 5,600 ton cruiser - a coal burner of all things.
Right, so that means that you … somebody was stoking. What were your jobs on that ship? What did you personally do?
Well my class - is a whole class that joined the Encounter - and we had a special instructor to teach us … you know, get us into the working of the ship
Right
..and all that sort of thing.
How large was the class?
Eh 20, about 20 and eh, of course, we were under this instructor and had to go through a special routine for the war, for the class hadn’t really integrated into the ship at that time.
Right, would you have been called an able seaman yet?
No.
Not yet?
No, I was only a boy - ordinary seaman second class.
Right.
Yeah, and from there you got to ordinary seaman first class and then to able seaman and from able seaman to leading seaman, leading seaman to petty officer. By the way I became a petty officer at the age of 21 and … most Australians weren't subject to discipline … and they didn’t approve or the classmates didn’t approve of going for promotion. Anyhow I did and I lost a lot of friends through it because I had to be disciplinarian.
Now as you moved up through the ranks, what determined your promotion each time? Did you have tests of some sort?
Oh yes, as an able seaman you had to … more or less a small examination. Leading seaman … he would have to go to higher test, but petty officer you had to be pretty proficient.
And were the tests administered on the ship?
Oh yes.
By your superior officers?
Oh yes, oh yes. And eh, now we were then, as I told you earlier, we were convoying troops - New Zealand and Australian troops - to Colombo, coming back and picking up another few ships and eh, as I told you at the time, this explosion, this ship, Cumberland striking this explosion or whatever it was, it turned out to be a German mine and the hunt was then on for the … whoever did it, who the German raiders were.
Can you go back and talk about what an ordinary day would be like. When would you get up in the morning? What were the shifts?
Oh the boys’ routine, we had a special routine, you would rise at eh … I think it was 5 o’clock in the morning. Lash your hammock up, fall in on the quarter deck with the hammock on your shoulder, and the last one over the rigging - and that was high rigging in those days - so you had an incentive to do it quickly and eh after I turned 18 I eh …
Keep telling me about the day, that’s getting up in the morning. Breakfast?
Oh yes, coffee and biscuits, yeah.
Where did you take that?
When you first got up you would be called, lash up and stow your hammock, coffee about 20 minutes, fall in with the hammock on your back, etc.
And where did the hammock go?
Into the hammock stowage on the upper deck of the Encounter - there was a position there where you could put your hammocks in.
All right, so what happened next?
Well next I eventually became on of the ..
No I mean in the daytime, what happened then, after you had stowed your hammocks, what was the next task of the day?
Oh, as far as I remember, doctor, you would go to classes, seamanship classes and all that sort of thing, then you had to know all the rules of the road, boatwork and all that sort of thing, if you were in harbour of course. But apart from that you would have a session at school, a teacher on board - a school teacher and generally to be taught general seamanship and the handling of ropes and all that sort of thing to become one of the members of the ship’s company.
So how were meals organised? How many meals did you have in the day?
Well you would have biscuits and coffee when you first got up and then breakfast and eh
When was that? When was breakfast?
Oh, that would be about 8 o’clock I think and eh … two of the class would have to act as cooks for the day.
Right.
Get the meals from the … from the galley and all that sort of thing and wash up and all that sort of thing and get back to classes or whatever it may be.
So there was a roster?
Roster, that’s right.
Ok.
Yes, that’s the word. And eh … you filled in the time that way and of course it was very interesting to us, crossing the Bite to get to … sometimes very rough weather and I remember one of the troop ships Aberdeen White Star liner Ceramic - no, no, not the Ceramic - I forget the name of it, had a cargo of horses proceeding to the Middle East. Well up on the deck as well they had horses and the weather was that bad … the pitching of the ship, the horses were washed overboard and this ship had to proceed to Fremantle to clear the … the idea … the horses they had down below in the holds and all that sort of thing, trying to clean things up. In a bad … I remember seeing her pitching and she would … up to the bridge out of … under water and the propellers were out of water.
In air.
The captain took a photo of it, the captain of the Encounter.
So, you got to …
Colombo?
No you got to breakfast time, I want to know the rest of your day. More classes?
More classes all day.
All day?
Yes, or …
Did you have free time at all?
Oh well, plenty of free time in the evenings.
What did you do in your free time?
What did I do in my free time? I … I really forget what I did. But anyhow …
Was there a library on board? Did people read a lot?
Oh yes, there was a library, yes, yes.
Did people play card games?
We had to go through the bath.. - there was only one bathroom, for the engineering staff, there were coal … coalworkers, had to go to … and we only had the privilege of using that bathroom once a week..
Goodness.
But otherwise, when we got up of course, before we went to breakfast we had to wash, get water from the pump, use a bucket and then have a clean up, have a wash, and then after breakfast to … - you would have about an hour for breakfast - you would fall in for classwork and all that sort of thing, teaching, very likely school or …
What was your uniform like as a … when you were first on the ship?
The uniform was like the … bellbottom trousers and blue jumper with a blue collar and a lanyard for your knife, you had to wear a knife in those days. The blue jackets were, you know the uniform?
Yes, I know, yes. So, did you have to wash and iron that yourself?
Yes, you had to, oh that is one thing you had to lay your kit out every week, for examination to see that you kept washing, there was a period of washing in the dog watches. Do you know what the dog watches mean?
That’s …
From 4 o’clock in the afternoon is the first … to 6 is the first dog watch. That would be a period where you would be washing and eh … looking after your clothes and all that sort of thing, under an instructor, see that you did it properly, kept yourself clean and all that sort of thing.
How … was it hot water you were able to wash in? Did you have to heat up water?
No, there was no hot water.
Always cold?
Always cold. And I might mention that we had to coal the … coal ship as they call it. That’s … see the Encounter was a coal burner and after we started the search for the German raiders a collier would be appointed to meet you at a certain point and you would have to coal ship … sometimes 300 tons, 400 tons, and more … and that was a dreadful job.
And did everyone pitch in on that?
Everyone pitched in. 100 weight bags you would fill up from the collier and they would be hoisted in onto the Encounter and between the upper deck of the Encounter and the "mess deck" as they call it, they'd put chutes so the coal could be dumped straight down the chute into the bunkers. It was quite a job. They’d tie a stay between the two masks and use that in conjunction with the … helping the hoist … used to be a ton hoist and land … it was a pretty hard job. Anyhow, that was all right, we would get through that and then you would have to wash yourself , you’d be like a black fellow.
And everybody would have to wash at once on that?
Oh yes, every … not the … only the seaman, they were the only ones that coaled ship. See there was … the engineering department, they were busy down below stowing the coal. And they … and all the other departments in the ship, like the storeman and the victualling of the stewards and all that sort of thing, they didn’t take part in that.
Ok, when you were being trained, while you were on the ship and you were going to classes, were you being trained for a particular role in the ship, or were you being trained to do all of these things?
Seamanship was the main aim of it, teach you to handle boats and become … one of the ship’s company in exercising and allotted to torpedo drill or gunnery drill or whatever it may be. The Encounter was very heavily armed with Mach 6" guns and eh minor, eh 3 pounders, etc. And torpedoed … submerse tubes of torpedos. Later on I did a course when I became an able seaman down at Flinders Naval Depot and eh, I became what they call a seaman torpedo man, was one of the torpedoed crews, down … submerge crews, and eh, and then later on, of all things, I was breach worker of a 6" gun.
Um.
Which was not a very nice job, you know, you opened the breach and eh 3 others would … put the projectile in the gun and then, cordite charge behind it and rammed them all in, then I would watch that … soon as they had … I would close the breach and report "[DMC?] closed, breach mechanism closed, gun ready".
Well then there was the sight setter and the gunnery layer sitting opposite one another in the gun, with the ports open where they could see … later on they became a director on the tower, on the mast, which got in touch with the army or the edges of the target and instruments would be replayed in the turrets and all the gun layer and guns … eh … all they would do was follow pointers. If the director tower was out of use - which could have happened with the Cormorant when she sank the Sydney - they go into local control, the gun layer and gun trainer could use periscopes to tell them … they could individually control the gun
Right
Through the enemy … Apparently what had happened in the Sydney, when the Sydney was sunk … .
But that’s a bit later, we’ll talk about that later.
… later on.
Yes. Keep talking about the Encounter. Tell me about the people you worked with on the Encounter. Who were your good friends on the Encounter?
Oh 2 or 3 of my class I chose as my best friends, but also, when I became 18 and was set into the crew of the ship proper, I eh … one of my friends was a chap named Latin, Harper, and eh so on. You made friends according to you choice, but eh.
What sort of things would you talk about with your friends? It is a very isolated life being in the navy.
Oh it was.
What did you talk about? Did you learn about the rest of the world, did you hear … did you get newspapers for instance?
Oh, very seldom, very sel ..
How did you find out what was happening in the war?
They would have a newsletter every morning, apparently wireless was in its early stages in those days, but there was a newsletter we pinned up, that’s all we knew, but eh.
Right, did you get mail from home?
Oh, very seldom. We would only get mail according to where you were. If we were in Melbourne, naturally we would get a batch of mail, but talking about mail, when we, when they knew that German raiders were about, we started to hunt in the Pacific and we must have done hundreds of thousands of miles searching right across the Pacific to the American coast and eh … that is where we eventually came across the Seeadler the German raider, had been a sailing ship converted to … a powerful engine as well, dual purpose, that sort of thing and the idea was to get the guns off and we searched for the - I was only a youngster at the time - this would be 1915 or 16 and eh the idea was to get the guns off and present them to Papaeete, the French establishment, as far as I know.
Anyhow they [rigged shoe legs?] and they got one gun off and they were lowering - they would lower the - pinnace is an open boat you carried, about 40 feet long, with a strong back of course and a wire sling and they got this first gun off, got it down below, got it slung under the boat, that is the very high rise and fall of the ocean, apparently the gun hit the rip and broke the sling, they lost it.
The second gun, I am not quite clear what they did with that, I think we left then in search of further raiders, but eh …
You started talking about mail, you said something to do with mail.
Oh mail, well the only time that I can remember we got a mail was when the collier, with coal …
When the collier ship met the Encounter, yes.
… made contact with us, she would carry mail for us.
Right.
Very seldom my mother never missed a week writing letters, she was marvellous.
Did you get parcels?
No, no parcels, only mail and that was very infrequent, yeah, but eh ..
So you would have been too young to vote during the war? You didn’t vote in either of the referendums?
No I don’t think so doctor, no, no I don’t think so.
Do you remember any discussion on the ship about the referendums?
What?
Do you remember any discussion on the ship about the conscription referendums?
Not that I remember, no. No, I don’t think so, that came after I think.
It was 1916 and 1917.
Was it, oh? No I don’t remember any discussions regarding … of course there could have been.
Yes, but you may be too young to …
We were dedicated to do the best we could and the main enemy was these German raiders lying … and another ship was lost, the Wimmera, Huddart Parker liner that was trading between Sydney and Wellington. She disappeared off the target altogether, never heard of her, but apparently the Wolfe, we found out after the war, had a mother ship with her and would take the passengers off and house them in their hold.
I remember reading after the war was over that they both got back into Germany and I think there was 700 crews that they had been captured and … see apparently she would capture a ship, take the crew and passengers, whoever was there as prisoners, and then help themselves to coal, or provisions, or what was available. And as I said, they got back to Germany after the war … 700 of them. Only allowed up on deck for a certain time of the day, an hour or so - you’d get fresh air.
How many German sailors or crew did you actually see yourself? Did you ever … were you ever in contact with the enemy … direct contact?
No, never ever saw one.
Right, not for the whole of the war?
No, no.
Were you ever engaged in a gun battle?
No, not actually firing, but apart from the Second World War we …
But that … talk about that later.
In the future. No the Encounter was very busy … oh, we run aground on Johnston Island, Captain Lewin lost his captaincy.
Yes.
And we were on … and Johnston Island is infested with bird life and when we were stationed … we were aground on the reef, they all invaded the ship … their droppings, oh it was dreadful.
How long were you aground?
Eh, if I remember rightly, about 8 hours I think it was. We got eh … waiting for the tide to get off and everyone would … aft in the ship … jump ship as they call it and we eventually got off.
Now that is very interesting, after we had done, after being aground we did 47,000 miles still pursuing the enemy and we had to go into dry dock in Singapore - Keppel Harbour, Singapore - and it revealed that from the bow of the ship to the area of the bridge, was all dented in. And in those days the ships didn’t have double bottoms, which they have now, in case of that happening and of course the plating had to be renewed from the bow back to the bridge.
And was that because of going aground?
Yes, that is what happened when it got up on the reef.
So, did you get leave while the ship was in dock?
No, we did a musketry at Blackamatti rifle range in Singapore and eh, by the way, they quelled riots that were happening there. The Japanese shops and all that sort of thing were being pillaged.
World War One?
Thrown out of the shops on the … and we had to land at 2 o’clock in the morning with rifles to try and assist, with orders no shots were to be fired. What we did, our orders were to hunt the population … we were up on the second floor, hunt them down below because they were throwing everything Japanese out the windows into the street. It was just …
Is this World War One you are talking about?
Yes.
So why were they opposing the Japanese?
I don’t know, the Japanese were … they were protesting about the Japanese, they had most of the business shops and all that sort of thing.
Oh I see, an economic protest.
Beautiful shops with silk and all this. And rickshaws, they heaped up all the rickshaws and burned them and eh …
And you were living in camp while that was happening? While …
No, we were still living on the ship.
Even while it was in dry dock?
Yes, that’s right, yes. And we were doing our musketry and Blackamatti, which is the rifle range at eh …
So, from the time when you joined up, till the end of the war, did you have leave at all? Did you go on leave?
No, there was no leave at all.
Goodness.
That I can remember no. After the war, yes there was leave and eh … I might mention that when I went on final leave before I joined the Encounter - they gave me a week’s leave, I think it was or 10 days - and I went home and Dad says, "Oh, I want to speak to you tonight," in front of a big log fire. I said, "All right Dad", and he said, "Look, I won't see you again." I said, "Oh, Dad", I was too young to realise what he meant. I said, "Oh don’t say that Dad."
Anyhow I had to go back and join the Encounter, that’s it, and we carried on hunting the German raiders and we had just come down from Saigon to Fremantle and I was one of 18 drafted, as we called it in those days, to HMAS Sydney which was with the British fleet, Inverness, Scotland, excuse me.. and eh anyhow 18 of us came across Australia, on the Trans-Australia Railway, to the naval depot at Williamstown in those days in Victoria and joined the troop ship Beramba on our way to England to join the Sydney - there were 18 or 20 navy … .
When was this, which year?
This was 1918.
Right.
We got to Aden, then to Cape town and then to Sierre Leone on the West Coast of Africa. The trip from Fremantle to Sierre Leone, we buried 24 I think it was at sea. The Spanish Flu as we called it.
Right.
It was dreadful.
You’d picked it up in Fremantle?
Oh I think it was all over the world, the cause of the Spanish Flu. Anyhow, they had to be sewn up in canvas and weighted, and over the side, there was a bit of a service. And when we got to Sierre Leone we had to put … I think it was 20 or 30 ashore - who were very ill and the war was nearing the end then, com …
You were talking about your father, was that connected to your father?
Oh, well I will tell you later on about that.
Anyhow we got to London and the naval ratings were sent down to Devonport Naval Barracks pending joining the Sydney up in Scotland.
Eventually we joined the Sydney, I was an able seaman by that time and the arrangements had been made of the surrender of the German fleet and I have pictures, postcard pictures of that, half a dozen of the German battle ships that surrendered, the names of them and all. They were brought to the Firth of Forth and of course they cluttered up the harbour and eventually were shifted to Scapa Flow where they opened the Kingston valves and sunk themselves, and that was the end of them. All the submarines that were in another place somewhere. Anyhow, I had a photo and I lent it to someone and didn’t get it back, of the British battleship flying the flag of America, Japan and Britain to go over to Germany to arrange the surrender of the German fleet and of course the arrangements were all the guns had to be deprived of their breach works and all that sort of thing, made safe, and they were safe enough to come to the Firth of Forth. Eventually, as I told you, we were transferred to Scapa Flow where they destroyed themselves.
Then the war was over and we had to go into Chatham Naval Barracks in England to refit them.
END OF SIDE A, TAPE 1
SIDE B
Then the war was over and we had to go into Chatham Naval Barracks in England to refit - I am talking about the Sydney and after a general refit we left England in … I think it was January 1919 in charge of one of the "J" class submarines. Britain had given 5 "J" class submarines to Australia. They were very large ocean going submarines and we had to sort of look after one - had to tow it at times across the Indian Ocean.
Did you get leave in England at all? Did you get to see England at all while you were there?
No, oh yes, we did, we did, yes, yes. I remember going down to London on a weeks’ leave that we might have got. The war was over and London was in turmoil with the continental troops and all that sort of thing. Americans, Australians, Canadians, all going mad and rejoicing, turning buses over and eh … stupid rejoicing really, in my book.
Where were you when the war ended? Do you remember when … the moment the war ended, when you knew that it had ended?
Sierra Leone in Africa, West Coast of Africa.
Right, so there wasn’t much opportunity for you to ..
Um
There wasn’t much opportunity for celebration then at that point?
Oh no, no, no, we carried on as I just told you to London, then eh …
What the troops did in the army I don’t know but we navy personnel were sent to Devonport Naval Barracks pending joining the Sydney up at Rosyth.
Anyhow, after the Sydney had been refitted and cleaned up we left on our way home, supposedly caring for a submarine. And the submarine left with us, we didn’t see it because of bad weather, it had to submerge, and eventually got to Gibraltar, that was our first port of call and from there, of course, we had to attend to the submarine and to tow it, if necessary, in hot weather.
This is the Sydney now you are talking about?
Um.
The Sydney was doing this?
Yes, yes. And prior to that the battle cruiser Australia had left and she was in charge of a submarine as well but we never heard … what happened to the Australia, they had a mutiny on arrival at Fremantle. We heard later on of course and the Sydney crew were inclined to be that way. They had had enough, you know.
What were their complaints?
Oh, it was routine without any leave and all that sort of thing and out on patrol and all that sort of thing during the war. They had had enough. Of course to me, it was new to me all that sort of thing, being so young. Anyhow, on the way out on the Sydney the engineer crowd, the stokers, etc. were complaining about the hot weather and firing the boilers and all that sort of thing and we as boys were directed to go down the bunkers and trim the bunkers, to the borders, to help the stokers out, which we did. Eventually we got to Colombo and then onto Singapore. When we got to Singapore the riots had broken out about boycotting Japanese stores and all those sort of things and we had to land there - there was only one shot fired, by a midshipman, and he shouldn’t have fired it. What we had to do was hunt them down from the second storey, below so they couldn’t throw stuff out the window, you know. And the streets were littered with rickshaws that had been burnt and storage, Japanese storage from the shops, beautiful silk and all that sort of thing.
Oh and then, lo and behold the rioting broke out in Wellesley Province, back near … and they were rioting there and pillaging the stores and coconut plantation managers, or the rubber works, they couldn’t handle it … they were in danger really. People were really starving. And I was one of 9 as a sent from … Penang, you know Penang is?
Yes.
That is where the main body was and I was one of about 10 or 12 under Commander Garcia to land on Wellesley Province and help … to order, yeah.
Right.
And we were ordered to capture one and make an example of them and bring them back to the headquarters. Well I chased a poor old Chinese woman, with her pigtail hanging down and she got into a pigsty - there were a lot of pigs there - and I couldn’t get her out. I had fixed bayonets … fixed bayonets and orders to shoot if necessary and I eventually … she got tired … and she broke down and screamed and came and gave herself up. I took her back to the headquarters and then … there was a curfew set up and we had to take night watches and keep all the residents indoors during the night.
Well, about midnight one of the … one of them came out, "Queen Mary very good man." I said, "You get back inside or I’ll" … the dogs were barking … anyhow he went back in … he meant well I think, but it wasn’t safe enough to encourage them.
Um.
And from there on got back, over the rioting and all that sort of thing, helped where we could … we eventually got back to Sydney. Granted leave. I think it was a fortnight’s leave, I am not sure. And when I came back from the leave the Sydney was paid off - do you understand what I mean? - de-commissioned.
Yes.
And the Brisbane cruiser - about 5,500 tons, had just been built at Cockatoo Island and we from the Encounter commissioned the Brisbane.
Right.
I was on the Brisbane for about 2 years.
There is one thing I would like to ask is.. you were being paid regularly?
Oh yes.
Was this paid into your bank account on your behalf or did you actually get money?
No, I think there was a pay day. You had to march round to the paymaster who would pay you and then you banked, you could bank on the ship, you see. Excuse me.
Right. Did you have a system where you left some of your pay to your folks at home?
Well, now you mention that, when I joined the training ship, I set up …
An account?
An account to my mother.
Right.
We were getting seven and six a week.
Right.
The allotment - I think it was two and six a week to my mother, which I think, I hope she received it - and eventually, it is a long story, they kept a certain amount, deferred pay, back - and I got that when I resigned in a lump sum.
What could you … Was there anything to spend money on, on the ship?
Oh yes, you had a canteen. Oh yes, run by a Maltese and pretty good too. He would store up when we got to any port you know. Yes, was quite good.
What sort of things would you buy?
Oh sweets and - I just forget now - souvenirs - all that sort of thing.
Right, and the shop was stocked each time you went into port?
Oh it was open all the time on the ship.
No, I mean the owner, the person who ran the shop would buy stock every time you went into port?
Oh yes, he would restock you see if we called at any port. Oh yes, and he was a Maltese by the way, it was quite good service. Where did I get to? Oh hunting the Germans, German raiders, they knew we were active … in the Pacific but they didn’t know … we couldn’t find them.
Did you have a camera?
I did later on yes, and I …
… but during World War I did you have a camera?
No.
Did any of your friends have a camera?
Oh yes, I must have 200 or 300 pictures taken during the war.
Taken on the ship?
Yes, taken from the ship.
Right.
And later on, when the war was over I had 2 cameras of my own and I took many hundreds of snaps and I used to print my own postcards.
Did they have a dark room on the ship?
Yes, yes. In the batteries room … you could make a dark room of it and my friend, Bert by name, he was a torpedo gunner, we printed thousands of snaps and the ship’s company were glad to get them.
So that would be something that you would buy from the stores then?
Well we got the necessary developing material and all that sort of thing, postcards whenever you could at ports and they were glad to buy them up. Sixpence a piece I think it was.
So you sold them to other members of the crew?
Oh yes, oh yes.
Right.
Gave an able seamen the job, paid him so much, to put them on the lower deck. I was a petty officer at the time. I was a petty officer for 10 years. Promotion on the lower deck as we call it was very scarce in those days. Then I was promoted to chief petty officer and later on they started a gunnery school … an officers’ training school - I am getting on to the Second World War.
Yes. What rank were you when the First World War ended?
The First World War, I was a petty officer, all from the age of 21 on I was a petty officer.
So the war ended in 1918, so at the end of the war you would have been an able seaman still?
Later on, after the end of the war … where were we … oh I must have been a petty officer for 10 years and then promoted to, pardon me, chief petty officer.
It is time to stop.
I think I was a chief petty officer ..
END OF TAPE 1 - SIDE B
Note: Second interview continues on this tape, but a new document has been started titled "William Allan-2.doc"
