Return to previous page	Listen to interview
William Evan Allan Transcript of interview by Ina Bertrand 1st December 2000 - tape 2
William Evan Allan interviewed by Ina Bertrand on 1st December 2000 Ok Evan there were a couple of things that came out of the last time we talked. Yes. What was your birthday please? 24 July 1899. Ok, thank you. And war was declared on 4th August 1914 and you joined in March. This means you were already in the navy. I was already in the navy, yes. Now where were you when war was declared? On Tingira On the Tingira in Rose Bay Sydney, that was the Australian Navy training ship. Ok, so you would have learned of the war from the newspapers did you? Oh yes, yes. Were you expecting war? No, really not, no. So you didn' t join the navy with the expectation that a war was coming? No, not really, no. Did you have any opinions about war or did the idea of war concern you or worry you? Not at all, not at all. I was just really taken with the American fleet that came to Sydney, the Great White Fleet in 1908. Ok, so it was what, a sense of adventure? Yes. And travel? And travel? Yes, yes I think so. Right, so when war was declared what did you think and feel then, was this exciting or frightening or how did you feel about the war? Well, I was very young, as you would understand, but I realised what it meant. My future was in the hands of the navy and just wondering what would happen. Right. And I understood the Australian Navy had been augmented just prior to war breaking out, the battle cruiser Australia and of course we had the Sydney, the cruiser Sydney and the cruiser Melbourne and the Encounter and we had 2 submarines and I remember seeing them from the training ship in Rose Bay, leaving to attack the Germans in the Pacific. And of course the main objective of the Australian Navy was to get the wireless station at Herbert Sally and you had no … the German fleet was at Scheinhorst, Nurnberg, Leipzig and Dresden and the Emden remained behind, doing as much trouble as possible and sinking many ships and causing a lot of trouble. So, how did you get to know all this, just from newspapers as a young lad on the ship? Oh no, the war history came through, Ina, and I was very interested in that. Right. And of course the German Admiral, he saw the writing on the wall, because of the battleship Australia, the 12" guns, and he with, I think, 8" guns, so he decided after doing as much damage as he possibly could, in cutting the cable at Ranning Island - the underwater cable, Reuters - and bombing Samoa, etc. and away he went to South America to refurbish his coal, coal and stores, etc. Churchill was minister for the Admiralty at the time and he sent the Monmouth, Good Hope and Cressy up to interfere with the Germans when they came out of their neutral harbour and there was an armed merchantman as well there. Well, when the Germans came out they had the British ships with the sun in their eyes and the battle started. Unfortunately the Monmouth, Good Hope and Cressy were sunk and the armed merchantmen got away with the object in view of letting the Falkland Islanders know what was happening. So Mr Churchill, being minister for the navy at the time in Britain, despatched 2 battle cruisers to the Falkland Islands - the Invincible and the Inflexible I think they were, 12 inch battle ships - and by the time they got to the Falkland Islands they were low in fuel, and services of all sorts and they were hurrying to coal the ship and smoke was revealed on the horizon. It was the 4 German ships coming round Cape Horn and eventually, to cut a long story short, the Invincible and Inflexible had to cast off what they were doing, coaling ship, and eh investigate the smoke which appeared to be the 4 German ships coming round the Cape. And action took place and the 4 German ships were sunk with complete loss. And the … You tell that story really well. Do I? Now is this a story that you heard at the time or one that you have learnt from reading … ? Oh no, it was history, it was news. So it was in the news it was … and you followed the news while you were on the Tingira? Oh yes. So you read every newspaper that you could? Well we used to get the news yes, I was very interested, yes. And eh Did what you did on the Tingira on the training, did that change once the war was declared? Not at all, we … I was just waiting to get to a seagoing ship. All right, so the training for the navy continued exactly the same? Exactly the same, yes. Right, ok. All right, now there is another thing that I wanted to check with you from the … from last time we talked. We talked a bit about how you lived on the Encounter, about what you did during the day, can you talk a little bit more about what that was like? For instance, you said you slept in hammocks, where were your hammocks? Our hammocks were stowed in the hammock bins on the upper deck. But what about at night when you were … where did you put them in … put them up? We put them up in an allotted span where we … under this instructor. Right. Apart from the ship's company. Ok, so the trainees were all kept separate? Oh yes, yes, yes, very much so. Ok, and then you said you woke, you were woken at 5 o'clock and you got up then and you had your coffee and biscuits then? That's right. And then you stowed your hammock? That's right, lashed the hammock up and mustered on the well deck, where the instructor was waiting for you. Right, what time was that, that you would be mustered? Oh, about half past five. Very quick? Yes. Ok and was that classes and work from then at half past five? No, at half past five the instructor was … over the horse business you know. Oh, gymnastics? Gymnastics. Right, physical training? Physical training, petty officer. And he was waiting there for you and of course you made sure that you weren't the last. As I told you, you go over the mast head. Right, now what does that mean? What did going over the mast head mean? Well the Encounter had very high masts, rigging. Over the rigging and back again, report back to the instructor. And this was just a punishment, there wasn't any sense to doing it? As an incentive not to be last. Right, ok. Yes. All right, so then there was the physical education. Now what came after the physical education? Straight to breakfast yet? Well, no, you would get running round the deck and doing a bit, you know, waking up sort of thing. Um And after that of course you would go to scrubbing decks or cleaning up your quarters Right. And then breakfast would come on and you would have two of us had to be detailed every week to get the food from the galley and lay the table and all that sort of thing. Then breakfast would piped. And you would have breakfast. Did you have breakfast with everybody else or was this … were you still separate? No, on special tables. Right. An allotted area for us and after that, as far as I could remember, remember Ina it is 52 years since I left the navy … Um … you would join in washing, scrubbing the upper deck and all that sort of thing, cleaning up Um … you were part of that, organised of course, and then breakfast would come, "Cooks to galley" would be arranged, piped, and away the two would go to the galley there is … had … and then breakfast would be piped over the Bosun's whistle and away you would go and have your breakfast. And after that, as far as I could remember, we would need to go to classes or whatever was happening and it might be a gunnery exercise on and we were allocated positions at the guns as sight setters. And eventually when you became an able seaman, you were integrated into the ship's company. Ok, so those sort of things happened then until, right until lunchtime. Classes and training until lunchtime? Absolutely, yes. When was lunch? 12 o'clock. Right, and still you were separate from the rest of the crew? Yes, yes. And then again more classes until the dog watch? That's right, the dog, yes, 4 - 6 is the first dog, as you know. Right, ok. And 6 - 8 is the last dog. What did you do during the first dog? Well, you were allowed leisure to look after your washing, look after yourself and writing letters or whatever you wanted to do. It was a free 2 hours, first dog watch. Right. Were there good facilities for doing things? What about … was there a special place to write letters? Only the mess table, that's all. And they didn't provide - was there a library on board? Yes, there as a library, yes. Did you read much? No, I didn't really, I didn't read much, but I am a realist, I like to … Well what sort of things did other people do, your friends, were they involved in playing games of some sort? Oh, they played games of some sort, recreation … Right … was provide and all that sort of thing. Doing your washing, going to get a bucket of water. Where did the water come from? Well they had a special leading seaman that was on the pump and he would man the pump and it would be reported to everyone that water was available. You would take a bucket along and get a bucket of water, or you wanted to have a bath on the upper deck, you would use a bucket of water. Fresh water? Oh yes, fresh water. Cold? Oh yes, yes, no warmth. The only warm washing we had was once a week in the engineer's or the stoker's bathroom, once a week we got a good shower. That is on the Encounter, but later on, on the modern ships, a good laundry was provided. What about a second dog watch, what happened then? Second dog watch, as far as I could remember, it would still be light, you could go to deck sports or something like that, whatever you liked to do, skipping and whatever is offering. You were all very young men, were you very sports and physical training minded? Were you athletic? Did you enjoy keeping fit? Not really Ina, no. I think being a realistic person, sport … I always followed the cricket and - not football so much - particularly cricket. Oh yes, we wouldn't get much news on board, get a newsletter that would be put on the board next day what was happening, apart from that it is hard to remember what we did. And when was bed time? Oh, the lights go out at 10 o'clock. "Out lights, pipe down" and the only lights that were to be left on in the ship would be for the electrician, duty electrician, just enough lighting to … for him to … and the RPO, Regulating Petty Officers, to see everything is ok. Right ok, now that is a good description of what life was like for you. Oh yes, and during the leisure hours… I remember we used to use the … where we sat at the table … - stools - to have a nap Oh yes. See. Yes, 'cos you couldn't sleep of course, you couldn't go back to your hammock, it is already stowed … Oh no, no way, no way. When you had to get your hammock out, they piped the hammocks, you know, could be slung, so you would go and get your hammock and sling it where you were entitled to sling it and you could get into bed, if you like, before 10 o'clock. Talk a little bit about your clothing. You had a dress uniform obviously, but what did you just wear, just in an ordinary day, rather than a … Well you had to be in a working uniform, that is a duck suit and eh - excuse me - mostly duck suits. In the winter you were allowed to wear the blue jackets and all that sort of thing, but you had to keep your kit going and there was no excuse - if you had to lay your kit out for inspection and certain things weren't up to date you were given time to bring it up to date and charges would get another issue of it. Right. And how did you keep things up to date? Is that just keeping them clean and … ? Well as far as keeping your sewing and all that sort of … you were issued with a 'housewife', they called it 'housewife' Yes, what was in that? Oh cotton, needles, all the necessary repairs that you would want to do. Uha. And that would be the sort of thing you would do in the dog watches? Yes, yes, and on weekends as well. Right. And you had to look after your kit and keep it up to date because you had kit musters very often and eh they would detect anything missing. Did you ever get sick while you were on the Encounter? I think I told you on one occasion I was working down the forehold of the Encounter and the air was very thick and I felt a bit of mal de mer coming on, but I was never seasick. Never. All the years I was at sea, never troubled me. All the time on the Encounter you didn't ever have to go to a doctor? Eh, no. Was there a doctor on board? Oh yes, there was a sick bay with a doctor and eh medical attendants and all this sort of thing. Would they all be male? Oh yes, all male. All men. Oh yes, definitely, yes, yes. And eh, oh I had some sicknesses. I was in hospital in Albany in Western Australia, there was an outbreak of measles, apart from that, apart from getting washed over the side and carted into the sick bay, I don't remember being sick. Right, well I know that happened after the end of the war, so back to that later. The one thing that you did talk about was the Spanish Flu and that was during the First World War. Oh yes that was very … Or just at the end of the First World War. Well, we came down to Fremantle from Saigon and I was one of 18 drafted - as we termed it in those days - to the HMAS Sydney in the North Sea. So away we went and across the Trans Australian Railway from Perth - we had the narrow gauge railway, 3 foot 6 I think it was - up to the eh Trans Australian Railway which is 4 feet 8&#frac12 to Port Augusta. From there to Terowie at South Australia, with a narrow gauge - 3foot 6 - and finally to Adelaide in 4 feet 8&#frac12 gauge. Down from Williamstown in Victoria, which was the naval depot in Victoria at the time and I think we were only there for about a week and the Beramba - a merchant ship that they captured from the Germans - was careened, the governor, the government had seized her and eh convoy … eh … a lot of her army … and ourselves, went aboard the Beramba in Melbourne bound for Aden … not Aden … yes Aden it was and eh eventually into Cape Town and on our way from Cape Town to Sierra Leone, which is on the West African coast the … what we term the Spanish Flu broke out… it was a devastating disease and eh … all the medicine on the ship was used up. So you think you picked it up in Cape Town? The ship picked it up in Cape Town? I think it was in Europe prior to that. But you people on the Sydney … Yeah, on the Beramba On the Beramba, you picked it up in Cape Town and you became sick between Cape Town and Sierra Leone? It could have been, yes. It was on voyage between Cape Town and Sierra Leone that we had this devastating death. Yes, what were the symptoms of Spanish Flu? Oh, I think I told you that I was watching over a Lieutenant on the bridge and I had just taken over at 8 o'clock - the first watch at 8.00 to 12 and eh I heard a sort of a rattle. I said, "Are you all right, sir?" I think he answered and shortly after that, I'd say 5 minutes after, I heard a rattle. And I looked over and he was just … Shaking? Shaking. And turned black. Within that short a time? Within that short time. That is what they all did. Their skin went dark. Right. And we had 1200 on board this old German freighter. We closed up, you know and it wasn't long before the body was removed and he was sewn up in canvass and weight … as far as I remember. So he died within … ? He died within 5 minutes. That's appalling. Yes. So, was there a big hospital section set up? No, no hospital. So people just died. There was a doctor on board, but he had very little medicine and the only thing that saved me, he told me, was my haemorrhage, I had a terrible haemorrhage from the nose … So you caught it too, you caught the Spanish Flu? Well, yes, I did. But I wasn't suffering enough to die. I got over it and when we got to Sierra Leone we had to land, I think it was about 30 that were very ill. What happened to them, we never knew. But you said that there were deaths along the, in the voyage, during the voyage. Oh, we buried 24. What was the burial service like? What happened? Well, first was read from the bible. And eh … Who did the reading, did you have a Chaplain aboard? I just forget now whether it was the captain did it or not, someone did it. Yes. I don't think we had a minister of religion on board, I am not sure. Anyhow, a verse was read from the Bible and tipped straight over the side. Down to the sharks. Yes. You were still a very young man then, you would only have been 18 then wouldn't you? I was 18, that was in 1918. So you would be 18 years old? 19, nearly 19, yes. Now, this must have been a … quite a shocking thing to you. Oh, it was dreadful, nothing could be done apart from lay out in the sun, on the deck and hope for the best. Right. Near a toilet where you could get to a toilet, if necessary. But eh … luckily, none of the officers got it, apart from this lieutenant that passed away that I was watching over. Ok, and there is just one more thing from what you said last time that I wanted to clarify. You talked about riots in Singapore Oh yes Now, I think maybe, were there 2 lots of riots because you talked about one occurring when the Encounter went into dry dock - anti Japanese riots against shopkeepers. Is that right? That is right, that is true. And then in the Sydney, on the Sydney on your return trip to Australia, was that the one where there were riots at Wellesley Province? Oh yes, yes, that's right. Have I understood that correctly? In Singapore and Wellesley Province as well. Ok, right. So there were 2 quite separate lots of riots. Oh yes, yes. All right, well now I have finished asking all my questions about World War I, I think… if you think of anything else that you think might be interesting, just interrupt. I told you about the Seeadler didn't I? Yes, yes, you told me about that. So, let's talk about after World War I then. Yes. Em, you were a career navy person so you continued. What did you notice that was different once the war ended? Different about your navy experience after the war, or between the 2 wars? Well, it was doing exercises and gunnery, firing exercises and all that sort of thing, keeping fit, keeping the ships up to date and all that sort of thing. We used to do our gunnery exercises at Jervis Bay and up into Queensland. Right, so very much the same then, except that the technology changed. Oh yes. Yes, ok. Now I do know that you had that experience of being washed overboard at some stage between the two wars, can you tell us about that. When did that happen and how? We were en route from Portsmouth, England to Canada, Montreal and Quebec, and eh ran into very bad weather. There were icebergs all around - this was in the North Atlantic and eh… in the morning, about 9 o'clock in the morning, the captain decided, while the admiral was on board, to ease the ship's speed and examine what was happening before the breakwater. Do you know what the breakwater is? It is like an eyelid, runs across the deck to break the ocean, coming over and spilled … but the starboard door of the breakwater had been washed out and the heavy seas were getting further down in the ship - down in the superstructure. Anyhow, it was decided that the ship would be eased in speed and thought it was safe, for the commander and myself, the bosun and 1st lieutenant to go and have a look. We had the lifeboat's crew waiting in case … had to be lowered … then all of a sudden I picked up what they call a whelp - it is in a capstan, you have got to have a cable going round, but if you want rope to go around you put the whelp in to take the rope and that was being washed … all the loose gear that was possible was being washed about on the deck, and I picked it up and the commander was only, I suppose 8 feet from me and I picked it up and I was going to put it behind the breakwater and the commander said "Look out!" I didn't know what to do. I dropped what I had and this terrific sea hit me - it must have been 25 feet high. The ship was pitching and the sea came over … came over across from the starboard bow - you know what the starboard bow is? Yes, yes. … across and I got the volume and it just hit me, so I dropped the whelp and put my hands on me head because I was not far from the breakwater, I thought, "I'm going to be bashed into the breakwater" and I went clean over the side. The ship must have been still going down as far as I can remember and I went through the air, overboard, which in normal cases … calm water, the ship would be, counting guard rails, would be about 36 feet above water, but I didn't touch a thing and I had an oil skin on and leather boots and - it was cold, the icebergs were about - and when I came to the surface the visibility of the ship was very poor, I didn't know what was going on there … Anyhow, I came to the surface, I thought "This is the end!" and I got the right boot off, tried to get the oilskin off but the seas hit me, and billowed out and gave me buoyancy sort of thing, as far as I remember and I was swimming for my life and the ship appeared again. It must have gone astern, the ship went astern apparently. And over the stern they tow a log line to render the distance with an impellor on the … with the ship going astern, the line was leading forward on the port quarter of the ship. I thought, "Well, I am going to go for that" and the lieutenant commander, I forget his name now, the shipwright, threw a "Kiss me" lifebuoy to me, one of those round lifebuoys, so I certainly got into that, dodged underneath and came up, got the other boot off. By that time the ship was bearing down on me with a heavy sea running and the suction of the ship rolling was inclined to take me with it underneath, so eh … Just keep going I think Evan, I think we will be OK. That all right, just keep talking. I was being bashed against the ship's side, with lumps on my head, and the position I was in near the chute, where they put all the rubbish down from the ships, the cut off was all jagged, I was coming up and down near that … I had the skin off … shins, anyhow they lowered another lifebuoy - "Kiss me", round one, with a grass line, that is a rope attached to it and I got in that and they tried to haul me in like a fish but it didn't act… I was bouncing into the ship rolling, so they didn't persevere with that. And then they put a jumping ladder over the side but when the ship rolled me I could only grab the bottom rung and I was so heavily dressed and all that sort of thing, lumps on my head and I was taking some water, I just … I thought, "This is the last of it", and I heard somebody say, "Hang on for a second Allan. We will have you inboard." This was Lieutenant Commander Howden, he was my divisional officer, I didn't know who it was, grabbed the oilskin and me and they hauled the two of us up, turned me over, got rid of some water, down to sick bay and there was the commander with his head split open, the bosun with his ribs broken and head split open, and I don't know to this day what happened to the first lieutenant, I never knew. Anyhow, the surgeon, Captain Scott McKenzie was in the sick bay, we were flag ship and had the surgeon captain of the Australian Navy with us and eh all they gave me as far as I can remember was hot coffee gave me as far as I can remember was hot coffee. And I was in bed and I looked over and I saw the poor old commander with his head all dressed up and eh … I think I was in sick bay for 2 days and eh the Admiral, George Francis Hyde, was on board. He sent for me and he said, "I admired your fortitude Allan, but I want you to understand I couldn't allow a boat to be lowered, because we would have lost the lot of them. It's good seamanship never to try and launch a boat in the sea like that." And I said, "Thank you very much sir." Anyhow, I tried to act bravely and in 2 … about 2 or 3 days I was out doing my job again. Was that the nearest you have come to death in the whole of your career? Your army… your navy career? No, not really, I was bashed in a truck that hit me on the right side and broke the handle of the truck's door and threw me over and I thought, oh, this is the end and I suspected smoke and I turned the ignition off. It threw the truck that I was driving about 20 feet over a temporary road they had made for a crossing and it was raining as well. That made it slippery and after I switched off the ignition and I saw someone with a stretcher on the … I said, "Oh are you the police?" "No" says he, he said, "we are the ambulance." They took me up to the Frankston Hospital, put me on a high stretcher, a couple of police were there smelling my breath - I am not a drinker! Anyhow, they wanted to know where I came from - oh and the stretcher chap, he said, "Who are you and where are you from?" I said, "My daughter's home is 28 Nauru Crescent, Seaford." And he apparently went down and my son-in-law that was then was there and he came up to the hospital where they had taken me and the doctor sort of examined me, he gave me a pill about that long and I was in terrible pain and because my son-in-law was there, apparently I don't know what they said to him but he said "You can take him home now." So, when we got home there was a nurse there as a guest, down from Sydney, and was going back to Sydney the next day luckily and she looked after me and got the lady doctor nearby. When she came she looked at the ribs, I didn't know whether I had broken ribs or not, anyhow, that's by the by and I was in bed for a month and my wife and daughter - was only a little girl then - they were all overseas in Vancouver. So I couldn't write - I didn't want to alarm them - so about 3 weeks I was game enough to write a few lines to say that I had been in an accident, but I was all right. Apparently the son-in-law, he was a baddie, although he was very kind to me and helped and all that sort of thing. No need to mention why he was bad. When the came back from overseas I told them the story of course and I was nearly recovered by that time, but eh … So when did this happen? Can you remember which year? I am not sure dear, I am not sure. When did the washing overboard incident happen? Oh, that was in 1928 at 9 o'clock in the morning, yes. One of the things that interested me when we were talking last time, you mentioned that some sailors that you … or some of your workmates didn't like the way you went for promotion. Oh yes, that was outstanding. Could you talk a little bit about going for promotion and then what effect it had upon your relationship with other people? Yes, yes. I was determined to be promoted as soon as possible. You go from able seaman - after 18 to ordinary seaman, and then able seaman and the leading seaman and I had got that far and I was determined for promotion in those days, which was hard. I was a petty officer at 22. Uha. And I lost a lot of friends through that. Well now, what do you mean you lost friends, how did this happen? Well, I think I may be wrong, but Australians are not subject to discipline. They don't like you to take responsibility and I lost quite a few mess mates over that. Became a petty officer. I was a petty officer for 10 years. Promotion wasn't there at all. It was such a small navy and up to that time, about that time, they got personnel from the Royal Navy on loan for 2 years. Of course … they And that prevented promotion for the local people. Yes, yes, that is only my opinion. So, what rank were you when the Second World War broke out? When the Second World War broke out I was a chief petty officer. Right, now everybody anticipated that war, everybody knew that that was coming, didn' t they from that time?. Well apparently, you know, Chamberlain came back with a bit of paper. Did you believe it? The bit of paper I mean. Didn' t know what to believe. Germany was out for the world, as you know and that bit of paper wasn't worth what it was written on, and of course when war broke out… when I came back for the Coronation in 1937, I was appointed to the Naval College - that is the officers' school. They had been moved down there during the Depression from Jervis Bay, which was a naval college or … expenses and all that sort of thing and they were billeted in the old warrant officers' building and I was appointed there as an instructor for them in seamanship - boat sailing and seamanship generally and eh policing the … the personnel that was employed there. And eh of course when war broke out I was about to go to Hobart as an instructor in the naval reserve. Just about to go when war broke out, and of course I was conscripted, I was appointed to the HMAS Moreton Bay which I found out after was HMS - Her Majesty's Ship. Of course we got paid in sterling, I didn't know. Most of the crew were army volunteers from South Australia - a fine lot of young fellas they were. The captain, first lieutenant, myself, the gunner's mate, were the only 4 … Regular navy Yes Regular navy All the others were - and of course the officers were - all reserve, apart from the captain and first lieutenant, belonged to the ship when war broke out. And the crew, that wanted to, signed T124 Articles on … That brought them into K.R and A.I - Kings Rules and Admiralty Instructions. It was at their wish, but apart from that they did a marvellous job, we did our gunnery exercises and all that sort of thing at Jervis Bay and away we went straight to Hong Kong. Did I tell you about that? No. Do you think you need a rest at the moment? Um. Do you want to rest and have a drink? Oh no, I am right. You are right ok? Away we went to Hong Kong to augment the British Fleet that was there. There were 3 German ships in Kobe Harbour, Japan, that could be armed, they had the fittings to be armed. To prevent them getting out into the trade routes and all that sort of thing, every avenue of escape was covered by submarine or cruiser or the Moreton Bay, so we took it in turns, monthly turns, so that the German ships couldn't get out. Right. We didn't know at the time that Japan was just about to pull the trigger and eh all of a sudden - the Moreton Bay I am referring to - away we went down to Singapore Naval Depot. We were only there for 4 days I think and then down to South Australia… eh South Africa where we were dry docked. I forget the name of the dry dock there, it was on the east coast of Africa. From there we went round to Cape Town and we were to garrison against the German magnetic mine. The Germans brought in mine that would be laid on the bottom, but the movement of the propellers of a ship would set it going, set it off, so what the garrison did was to neutralise the ship from electricity and that saved the ship from being … the stern being blown off, and away we went to Sierra Leone, Freemanstown, do you know where that is? Um. White man's grave it was known and eh we finished up taking the first convoy to the west approaches of Ireland. 75 - 80 ships, 5 knot speed and anyone that couldn't keep up with it had to take pot luck and get there if they could. Anyhow, in the second convoy we only lost one ship that we knew of. See 75 ships or 80 ships cover an immense area of the ocean. Are these the troop ships you are talking about? Um. Troop ships or … ? Oh no, cargo … all cargo ships. Cargo ships, right. Funny thing you mentioned troop ships, an armed merchantman - just before we got to the west approaches of Ireland - had joined us, circled around and was leading us and we heard, standby the German bombers are in the vicinity. About half an hour after, over came a German bomber with his machine guns going. Luckily we weren't in line, but he got all the gun's crew of the ship that had just joined the convoy, shot the lot of them, dropped his bombs, didn't hit anything with his bombs, dived down to just above the water and we were at action stations by that time. We fired a 6" shell up to him but as far as we knew didn't get him. Soon after, we were at action stations on the Moreton Bay, a U boat surfaced, quarter of a mile in front of us. We had just handed over the convoy to Corvettes and Flying Bombers and all that sort of thing. U boat surfaced, and of course we put on all speed and circled round, dropped depth charges, but we didn't know … didn't see any oil come to the surface and we didn't know whether we had got him or not. Anyhow this is it. What happened to him, he was lucky I think. So, the way you are describing this, it sounds as though you were in action a lot more in the Second Word War than you were in the First World War Oh yes, yes we were. We'd have to go to action stations sometimes in the mid watch, middle watch and I must tell you when this ship was lost I was in my bunk about 2 o'clock in the morning and it shook the bunk. I knew something had happened - we didn't know till the next morning when the British cruiser - the Sheffield I think her name was, joined us and as far as I know she went back to see if they was any flotsam or anything to indicate what happened.. But one little ship was missing, 1 Greek, 1 Greek ship was missing. That is it. I must tell you, when we were going back to Sierra Leone for the second convoy, we noted an open boat with 2 masts near the Azores. Um. A lifeboat only has one mast supplied normally, I will be able to tell you a story about that. Anyhow, the captain decided he would investigate and we picked the open boat up with the captain, the radio operator and about six Afghans and they had been drinking salt water. And he was captain of the St Anserel. The U boat, the U boats had got into a convoy and the commodore of the convoy - I found out this from the captain - gave the order to scatter. He was on the St Anserel, with a cargo of drummed oil from Calcutta and he said, "I was making for a rainstorm to get cover and all of a sudden there was a terrible explosion". He said, "I left the First Officer on the bridge, went aft, started to go aft and I could see it, there was no poop there, no gun". The magazine had blown up, the torpedo was apparently hit and landed in the water alongside him, so he went back to the bridge and ordered abandon ship and he and the telegraph operator and the 6 Afghan,…oh he said, "We just got away from the ship in time". They took the mast from the third lifeboat and put it in the captain's boat so that he could put 2 sails up, he was going to make for the African coast. Anyhow we got him alongside and we hoisted him inboard on the Moreton Bay and I had a talk to him, this is the story I am telling you. I said, "Are you going to get another ship captain?" He said, "If I can, if there is one offering." Brave old Irishman he was. How did the men manage who had been drinking salt water? Were they very sick? Well they are hard to manage you see, when they start panicking. See in a lifeboat you only have pannikins of fresh water and biscuits in case you are left in the open boat at sea, but he had to ration the water out he told me. They didn' t understand - they still wanted more water. It was very hot there. Anyhow they survived and he survived. Right. We landed him again at Sierra Leone whether he got another ship or not, an old Irishman. You know the story of the Jervis Bay don't you? She had a convoy, Halifax and the German cruiser, battle ship tackled him and he engaged, he turned round Moreton Bay … Jervis Bay, only had a speed of 14 knots with Mark 7 guns, with a range of 14,000 yards but the Germans could stand off with this, because they had 8" guns I think it was. Anyhow, he was granted a… Cross. Uha. You know, the German ship sunk the Jervis Bay of course, he was granted the … Victoria Cross. Cross. But the only thing he could do really to make himself as small a target as possible, be head on, approaching a German ship so that he could come in range with his guns, apparently he didn' t, and he was sunk.. That was sad. Em, which ships were you … did you serve on during World War II? Just the Moreton Bay? Just the Moreton Bay. Right And then, did I tell you the story of myself and other warrant officer and Commander Harris had started an officers' training school in Flinders Naval Depot? They were so short of officers that they had 40 reserve sub lieutenants in 12 months. Right. So I was, with Commander Harris, and Warrant Officer Dixon, we started this school going and eh they were good boys, selected from the lower deck. Do you know what the lower deck is? Yes. They were selected from the Depot on the lower deck to have the educational qualifications and 12 months with us and training and all that sort of thing and discipline etc and they all got through. The second lot we got they were in training, they … we were in … for the first 2 months or so we were in the warrant officers' building in the naval depot because there was no accommodation other than that, but they built a special school for us further out in the depot. And everything was going nicely with the second school and I was appointed to New Guinea. It was a blow to me because I was really interested in what we were doing. Eh … the warrant officer that was doing my job on the Australia had his foot blown off. He was in charge of the anti aircraft guns, where you were a sitting duck because you couldn't get aim at the Japanese. Anyhow, he had his foot blown off and the sub lieutenant that we had put through the first school was doing the … controlling the anti aircraft guns that I would have been doing. I missed the Australia by 7 hours. I was flown up to the Admiralty Islands to join the Australia - she had sailed 7 hours before, so I had to put up … was billeted to the officers' mess and eh I did try to help with the Americans coming back, the Japs had sunk one of their aircraft goes and some of the bodies and some alive, covered in oil, were being brought back to the depot and I couldn't do much other than just witness that. Anyhow, when the Australia did come back she had been hit by 5 Kamikazes. Did I tell you that before? No you hadn't. Oh, well one was nearly vital, just missed the bridge on the port side. There was a great hole blown in the ship's side. It was taking water, they had to list the ship, I was told after, they had to list the ship to save it, but the casualty brigade - very good, they had it [smackled up] in no time. The second Kamikaze had hit the … foremost funnel, they had 3 funnels, catapulted over and killed all the .5 gun's crew, 16 I think it was, another one had hit them, hit the aircraft catapult and there were fires all over the place I was told. And another one hit the port quarter, that is the port side on the after, and bounced back into the ocean. And she looked a wreck, she was on fire, but the brigades, accident brigade were very good, they patched everything up and she kept afloat and came back. And when I went down to join the Australia, Captain Armstrong was walking up and down the quarter deck. - I knew him very well, he was officer in charge of the college, prior to going to the Australia - I said, "I am sorry I missed you sir." He said, "Allan, you're a lucky man." He told me, he said, "The sub lieutenant who was doing your job isn't here any more." Levy was his name, a nice lad. Anyhow, after that the Australia had to leave there to come back to Sydney to go into dry dock at Cockatoo and do the necessary repairs. I was transferred from her to Flinders Naval Depot and I was in charge of the ship's company at the time. I was sent for and promoted to Acting Warrant Officer to be with Commander Harrison Dixon to start this officer's training school. So we started from scratch, we didn't know what to do really, but eh luckily, we had a gunner's mate that would take them on parade and all, shaping them up, they were good lads and eh … we had 40 - first class, through, 40 odd, I think there were only about 3 we failed that wouldn't turn out to be good officers. They didn't have it. Anyhow, when I was posted up to New Guinea, to Milne Bay, I was pier master there for 12 months. Suddenly they sent for me to be flown up to the Admiralty Islands to relieve this warrant officer that had his foot blown off. And as I just told you, I missed the Australia by 7 days. So I am like a cat, I've had several lives. Lucky escapes. Oh lucky escape, yes. Where were you when news of the end of the war came? Oh, I was transferred as warrant officer under Commander James the new entry school. So you were in the school when the war ended? Yes, I was in charge of the seamanship school. Can you remember the celebrations when the war ended? Oh yes, What did people do, what did you do? Well, I wanted to keep calm, there was too much noisy business going on. Unnecessary. Which I thought perhaps was hard of me. But I was very glad to hear about it. Good news.
Return to previous page	Listen to interview

Top of page

Victorians at War - Oral History Project