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Ned Egglestone Transcript of interview by Ina Bertrand 19th December 2000 - tape 1 (1 hr. 3 mins. 33 sec)
Ned Egglestone interviewed to Keon Park on 19th December 2000 by Ina Bertrand. Ok, Ned can you start out by telling us about, just very briefly, well when were you born? 1926, born in Meekatharra, in West Australia. Don't ask me what Meekatharra is like, 'cos I wouldn't know. Right, and then you went to … … went to a home. Do you know how old you were when you went there. Oh I think I was about, wouldn't be 2 years old, you know. Right, so you are part of what they now call the 'stolen generation.' Yeah, I suppose, you know. Ok. I would have been because those days, you know, they were trying to … you know if you had, as you have read about, you know, if you had aboriginal blood in you they were trying to … you know, I don't know what they were trying to do. And you said your mother was white … … white yes .. And your father? How much aboriginal, I don't know. But part aboriginal? Must have been part, or I don't know … never found … they lost … they didn't have his records. Well, that suited them not to have many records of them. Ok, and you were there for a long time. Oh years, yes, because I was 17. 17? They sent me out onto a farm, you know. They … when you got to about 15, they would send you out to farms, you know, but your money, what money you got, came back to the orphanage, and they kept that money till you was 21. Actually, till you was 21 you couldn't get that money. Did you get it when you were 21? Yes, I got about, I don't know what it was, about 50 pounds something when I was 21 I got that. Did they track you down to do this or did you have to ask them? I had to ask them, you know. Yeah, I had to ask them. However, at the age of 17 you decided you had had enough? Yeah, yeah, I was working with this fella and he was a bit of a … bit of a slave driver, you know, cracking the whip, and I was in this little shed, you know, and just a bed there and no heatin' or anything, it was a fibro hut, you know. And I'd be out there early in the morning, go and get all the cows. Used to have a horse, you know, by horsepack, get the cows and milk them, then send them out in the paddock again and at night time bring them in and milk them again, you know. That was most of the work. Other times, when you finished milking, used to eat, not with the people that owned the farm, but in a little room, you know, that was separate from the people. Were on your own? Yeah, I was on me own. Yeah, and my little … How did you hear about the war? Oh, I had lots of fellas from the home had been enlisting since 1940. Different ones used to come back to the home in their uniform, and we would all crowd around them and, you know, and then when they come back from the Middle East, they would come out to the home and, you know, talk to us and that. So they were heroes. Well, they were to us, you know, and we sort of all sort of thought, well we are all going to be soldiers too. You know, that was the thing. Alright, and how did you make it happen? Well, I took off from the farm, when … travelled up to Perth. I was on a farm down the sou' west of Western Australia, down at a place called Manjimup, which is in the big timber country. You have probably heard about the big Kouri trees. Uha. That is where I was working and so one day I just, I took off I think about … just as it got dark, you know. He'd get a helluva shock in the morning when there was no cows milking it, wouldn't he, but anyway. What did you take with you? I just took meself. You didn't even have a bag? No, didn't have a bag, just, just eh … oh I had an old bloody sugar bag thing, you know. Money? I had enough money to get the train to Perth. Perth was about … oh 300 mile or something, you know. And you knew where to go in Perth? Yeah, I knew where the eh … this is a funny story. I knew where to go, the recruitment offices. So, first I went to the navy one, you know, and the bloke there said, "Oh look, come back when you are finished school, son" you know. But the navy was pretty select and they might have know that I was part aboriginal, you know. And anyway I thought, well I'll go down the street a bit and go to the army. And I go in there and the bloke said, "How old are you son?" I said, "I'm eighteen" you know, 'cos you could get in when you was 18. "I don't think you are" he said. "Have you got any … ?" I said, "Oh no, I haven't" Well, he said, "you are not 18 are you?" And I said, "not really." He said "well, you know, cant do much for you." So then I met a fellow and he said what you want to do now is go to another army place, out of Perth, and try there. And I was lucky. I went in and there was a First World War bloke there - old bloke. Had his First World War ribbons on you know, and he is sitting there, and I go in there and he … "Yes son, what can we do for you ?" I said, "I want to join the army" you know. He says "Oh, I don't know" he said, you look a little bit young to me. I said, "Oh yeah, do I?" you know and I, shy and that, I hadn't been into the world, you know, I had been like that in this bloody joint and he said, "Tell me your story." I will never forget this man. And I said, "Well look, you know, I have absconded actually from my … from an orphanage" He sent me out to a farm and I am still under their control. "Em" he said, "you know" and he said, "You know, you know I.." he said, "you are young and I could get into trouble." He cant get into trouble now, because he would be dead. But anyway, he said, "you are 17 are you?" He said well, "Oh, have you got no … " he said, "just sign here" you know. It is a long time ago. So you didn't need a birth certificate? No, somehow or other I told him that I … I think he took … I think he was on my side and said, "look, I don't know me mum and me dad and" I said "I want to join the army." And anyway, I filled in this form. He said, "bring your toothbrush or something" he said "and report to the army camp in Perth." And he put his hand out and he said, "And good luck to you son." I still remember it. And so that is how I got in. So how did you come to be training in New South Wales? Oh well, they didn't train … see mostly you come over to New South Wales. West Australians, well the big training camps were in New South Wales, even if you joined in New South Wales you would go to the big training camp in Bathurst. That is where most of the training camps were. But in Western Australia a lot of Victorians were over there because they thought the Japanese were going to land up around Broome and that, so they put a lot of the Victorian people up there and also kept them a long way away from their homes. They couldn't sort of … it was a long way to get back to their homes. Ok, so you trained in Bathurst and then in Queensland? Yeah, went to Bathurst. I done a few months there. I done a mortar skill there - a 3 inch mortar skill, but I failed the … I passed in the practical, the training in the field, but then I had to do a written thing about (??9.1). I was a bit dense there, I didn't know it. Is that because the schooling in the orphanage wasn't very good? Yeah, yep. Right, so then … So then I … You didn't go actually to the front did you when the others did from that training camp because you were still too young? Oh, a lot of them went, yeah, because they were, you know, I was in with blokes that was 20 and 21, you know and see … they found out a lot of young kids, and they were … people were going crook, their mothers and that, you know, and getting them out of the army because they were under age. Somehow or other they forged their, you know, names, forged their signature and that you know. There was a group of you under age? Yeah, there was a few. And you were all sent to Singleton you said. Yeah, we went to Singleton then and that is still a military camp today actually - that is a big museum there. Yeah, we went there and we still done more training there. But I remember one fellow there, he was sent there, he had been up in New Guinea. He had been in the front line and they found out his age and they had sent him back down to Singleton. Of course we thought he was some sort of hero, you know. He was telling us about New Guinea and that. So right at the end of World War II you actually managed to get overseas? Well, I went from there up … I done the jungle skills, what they call … and it is still going today, up in Kanunga - I think they call it The Land Warfare Centre now, but that was a jungle still. It was a pretty … it was a pretty tough course, you know. And mostly then, at that time, they were breaking up a lot of units like workshop units and all that because … and anti-aircraft units because there wasn't … see the Japanese was getting … And anyway I went from there on the Tablelands and then went to Moretoi - a little island called Moretoi in the Helma Heras Group of Islands, you know, round there … what it is near Borneo. The Salibes … I think that has got another name now - they have all got different names now those … Anyway … What was your unit called then? Second Tenth Infantry Battalion. It was a South Australian Battalion, but they would put you in wherever they wanted reinforcements, you know. And I always remember, and I think most blokes will, they accepted you but, when you had been blooded, you were accepted more, you know. When you had seen a bit of action. Until then, well they accepted you and they knew you was only young, they were only … a lot of them were only young themselves. But some of the blokes had been to the Middle East and been there and been to New Guinea a couple of times, you know. And they were good to you, you know, they helped you. They sort of showed you the ropes. What sort of things did they do? Like infantry you know, they'd tell you, you know, and when you go into action you, you know, just be careful, and they'd sort of been through it themselves and they sort of … keep your head down and, you know, keep your head down. Did you remember all this when you did go into action? Yeah I did remember a bit of it, yeah, bloody oath I did. Yeah. So where did you go into action? In (Balpatten ??12.8). We landed, we came out of landing barges. We went from Moretoi on landing barges and then - I have never seen so many ships in all my life you know. It was all an experience to me, I had never seen a big city till I left the home. You know, I had never seen Perth, never seen Melbourne, never seen Sydney, but anyway, we went in by land and barge. Was there opposition? Yeah, there was opposition you know, but blokes, you know, we often joke about, you know, and then they would say, you know, at some reunion and that, they'd say, "No wonder you come back, (Nedgar??13.5) couldn't bloody see you in the dark, you only went out in the dark, you know, but it was only in fun. See you are not allowed to say those things today. I said, "yeah, that's right," but anyway. The other young men that you were with, did they all come back? You lost some in action? No, lost a couple, yeah. So that was the first time that you had lost mates in action? Yeah, mates, you know. You still think of them, you know, but it's a long, long time ago. How did that make you feel at the time? Well, it made you feel pretty … mmm … well, sort of, you had to … see the older fellas, they'd gone through all this and you thought of well, you know, they went through it and even if you was a little bit, you know, frightened, you didn't show it. You had to, you didn't want to show it if you were, you know, because these old fellas, they had been right through everything, you know, and they knew war from top to bottom, you know. But they were all good, the NCO's were good, and the officers and , you know they'd, what would you say, give you a bit of confidence and that, you know. Did you look forward to going into action or was it frightening? No, well I knew that that is what I had joined the army for, that eventually, being in an infantry battalion you are going to go into action at some time of your career and actually, you know, probably would have gone … well I would have gone further, only we were there and all of a sudden they said, "the atom bomb has been dropped" and that was the end of it for us, you know. We still lost a couple of blokes that were out on patrol when … the war had actually finished and they were inland, you know, … And the Japanese wouldn't know that it was finished either. No, you see, and they'd … and actually we lost fellas, which I thought was sad, was old fell … well when I say old, I am talking about blokes 30 that had been in the Middle East, they had been to … they had come back from the Middle East, they had gone to New Guinea, come home on leave, gone back to New Guinea, come home, then went up to Queensland and then went to Ballickpapon, or some went to Tarikan, the other part of Borneo, and got killed, about, say, 2 weeks before the war finished. It was sad, you know, for those fellows. How did you feel when the war ended? Were you glad, relieved, sorry? Well I didn't come home for another … You see the war finished in eh … when did it finish August? August 1945. Well, they said, see, they had a point system going. If you were married, you had so many points. This is to bring you home. If you were married, you got so many points, your service they … so therefore the Middle East fellas that had been in nearly 6 years some of them, they would be in the first boat home. Right. And us, we were only kids, well we were just bloody 17, 18, about 19 I think, 19&#frac12, and they said, well you blokes are not going home, see we didn't have the length of service, so we … our job then was to put all the Nips in camps and then we sent them back to Japan, you know, from Borneo, they said "you are going to the Salibes now" and we went to a place called Makasa and the … no opposition because the war had finished, we just pulled in there on the navy boats and eh took over the town and rounded up all the Nips and put them in camps and then we supervised them to go back to Japan. There was still a couple running around in Makasa, but we eventually got them, though they wanted to, you know what I mean, they would … Keep fighting. Yeah, they sort of mixed in with the native population, but we got them. They had a couple of little short, fire fights, you know, to get them, and they … when they got all sent back to Japan from there. See it took a long time because there was a shipping shortage. So then the CO said, "Well, yous are not going home to Australia yet, and we finished up going to Rabaul, which is in New Britain and there was, I think if we had landed there, there would have been many, many casualties. Australian casualties as well as Japanese. We went to Rabaul which was a fortress, you know, they had tunnels in the hills, they had little landing barge on rails, which they had … could come out on the rails. They had big guns on rails and they would have come out and fired a few shells and then gone back into the mountain again. And there was thousands of Japanese there, and then we sent all them home, well we come home , I think it was about June. In 1946? In '46. When we had come home, you know, they say about no welcome home, when we come home we landed in Sydney and come on the ship and no one knew where … you know we just landed in Sydney, went to a camp called Marrickville, and stayed there a day or two and had a look around Sydney, then caught the train over to Perth. And then you joined up again? Yeah, but before that, when we got to Perth, I never got out of the army till December - 12th December in '46. They sent me to another camp, aw just … just buggerising around, you know, because they couldn't discharge everyone at once, you know what I mean, there was that many people. Yes, of course, they had to have time … … so we went up there, and it was a sort of … there was a big store, like all army gear and that and all we was doing was stacking that and, you know, we were just waiting to be discharged. And I got discharged on 12th December and got out. But you had no family to go home to did you? No, well I just went on … I just went on the grog then. Went on a binge. This is on the tape too, isn't it? Yes it is. I did. Well, I am telling the truth aren't I? Well, it is understandable. A young man with no family and no ties. Didn't have any ties and I had a pocket full of money, you know. 'Cos I have never had money in me life and I think we used to get … we used to get six bob a day, which is six shillings and two and six for overseas service, I think. I think it was something like that for every day and then you had a gratuity. Well, I had money to spend, you know. More money than you had ever known. Yeah, more money than I had ever known and I ran into a kid who had never been in the forces, but he had been in the home with me. And he was my age, you know, and, you know, I reckon I paid for his grog as well as me own. And it just sort of … when I think back now. But anyway, I was only young, so … it didn't do me any harm, but you know I just used to, we didn't even, we used … (I don't know whether I should say this on tape) we would just camp out in the … under you know under shrubs and that and then wake up of a morning and go and have a wash under a tap or something, smarten up and then go to the pub. Well, it seems pretty clear why you joined up again then. That was a pretty aimless sort of life. Yeah, one, I said to meself, I said to the bloke, I said, "oh look, are you going to join the army?" He said, "no." I said, "well I have to do something to get out … otherwise I would have been on 'skid row' you know. I would have been in the gutter you know. And I thought, well I will go … so I will go back and I will just … they said, you know, be in … got in easy. But I don't know whether … because they did have a policy then for the occupation clause, 'cos I know fellas that they wouldn't take … they'd take them for the war, but when the occupation force, you know, everything was spit and polish and your boots shiny and all peace … peace you know like just looking after Japan till you know there was Americans out. They didn't want to take aborigines. But they took you. Yeah, but sometimes I … sometimes I think they … well when I joined up they didn't ask you was you aborigine you know. Right. Never asked. They just on my things have just … sallow complexion, scar here or somethin' or hazel eyes, that's all. No one asked you was you an aboriginal but then … see rich … like … I am a bit crook on some things. I am crook on aboriginal returned soldiers. When they come home … is it alright to say this? Yes, go on. When they came home, some of then still couldn't … when they got into civilian, you know, when they got discharged, they couldn't go and have a drink of beer with their white mates they had been in the army with because they had that law then. You know that no aboriginal … Oh, I know it has done a lot of harm since they have been able to, but even Reg Saunders, the Captain. Yeah, he finished up a Captain in Korea. I knew Reg in Korea and he … he was refused a beer, you know. Were you? I was refused once you know. I was pretty lucky wasn't I? Right. Yeah, I was pretty lucky, but I was with some blokes once and when I was in uniform and we went into this pub, I think it was in Singleton, and a barmaid there - I think there was about 4 of us if I remember. All young, and well actually we all shouldn't have been drinking really you know but … if you was in uniform, you know, you could, they used to look after you and that. And she said, I don't think I have served that man there you know, to me. And I didn't know what to do and they said, "Jesus, serve him he's a soldier, you know, we will be going away with him." And she said, "Oh, you know, I will get into trouble." And they said, you know they said to her "We will put on a bluer here if you don't serve him" and I got served. But that went on … that went on all over Australia. Alright so … I am a bit bitter about that and that they couldn't get into some RSL Clubs. But other than that, the army to me was … had its good times, had its bad times, but I had a lot of good times, you know. So you went with the occupation forces to Japan? Yeah, yeah. I want to see you get to Korea fairly soon, so … how long did you ..? Yeah, yeah, I done the … I was 12 months in the … … in Japan. Yeah, well practically 12 months, you know. And then you were demobbed again? Yeah, I got out again, you know … I should have … So, what made you go back into K-Force? Well, I just stayed … I was on the railways at the time too. And I thought, ah well, you know have a go at it again. Have a go at eh … Was that because you liked the army life that you wanted to … Yeah, I did, yeah … Were other … were some of the mates that you had made before, were they going back in? Yeah, a couple of them went back in. Some of them couldn't settle down, you know, some had broken marriages you know, and some fellas … a lot of fellas couldn't settle down, you know. What about you, were you settling down ok? Well, I had … I had met me wife then you know. So you weren't … . Just as well she did, just as well I met her 'cos, you know, she put me on the straight and narrow sort of thing. Ok. Alright, now, lets talk about Korea. Yeah, pretty cold. Well, before you get there, you have to get there first. Tell me about the training. You said you had a short, extra training … Yeah, went to Puckapunyal. Was that just to bind everybody together into a group was it? Yeah, and a bit of weapon training you know, to brush up on your skills of … we still had the old 303 from the First World War, you know, that was a weapon from the First World War, we had that. We had the Owen gun and the Bren gun, we just brushed up our skills on the equipment. Ok, and you said that there were men, there were a lot of ex soldiers weren't there? You were infantry, but there were others who had come from other areas? There were others that had come from workshops, ordinance, artillery, you name it ... and we had ex air gunners from the Air Force and ex sailors. Right, so they used that training period to bind you up into one group? Into one yeah. And then we … So what was your unit then? Well the Third Battalion. Ok. Which is in the news at the moment. Yes, well, leave that one. Em, so that was in December, during 1950 you trained, and you went over to Korea in December. Yeah, before then I think it was. Ok. You know, by ship. And I went … and we were going up past ... this is … going up past oh, you know, you could see the lights from the ship and my mate he said, "I wonder whether we will see that again Darkie?", he said, I said, "Yeah, no worries" but he didn't. He didn't come back. So Darkie was your nickname? Yeah, Darkie, or sometimes they'd, oh you know, there was other names too, but I cant say that on the tape. Ok, not so complimentary! Yes. Goodo. Alright, where were you camped in Korea? Where did you settle down. Oh, we went to a placed called … well we went to a few places in Korea, you know. What was the first one? Oh, I think it was, they call them hills. You know, Hill 314 or they had names like … they had names for the security like, you know, in case the old Chinaman and that. There would be (??27.4Salmon) or 315 or 610 - it was a sort of a code for the different hills that you attacked, you know, or the different positions that you had to attack. I was more interested for the moment - I will come back to that - in em where you were camped, where you … . No, we was on the move. All the time? Mostly all the time we was on the move. Yeah, we didn't … How did you bed down at night? What did you do? Oh, just in a hole in the ground, you know. So you carried all your gear on your back? Yeah, all the gear. What would be carrying and wearing as you were moving around? We were wearing service dress … what the call service dress, you know, tunic and … we had an American headgear, 'cos as I said, the Australian army didn't have any winter gear. We had … we looked like Yanks, only we had a risin' sun badge on the front of the … see the cap we had on had come down, was furry, you know, and it would pull down over here, whereas … It was pulling down over your ears and tied under your chin. Yeah, around there. And then we had an American smock thing, you know … sort of a jacket. And we had their boots, their snow boots and eh … And what did you carry? Oh, I was number 2 on the Bren. I would carry the ammo and that, and I had a rifle too, but I was number 2 on the Bren, which is a machine gun, you know, and eh, the little fella I was telling you about, he copped it at Capyong. I carry his thing in me wallet all the time, he is … a bloke went over to Korea a couple of years ago and he took a photo of his grave, you know, his tombstone, and I carry that. But anyway … But what … did you have to carry food with you or … ? Well, you had American rations. Right. You would have … there would be 3 meals in this ration kit, you know. There might be a tin of beans and a little thing of soluble coffee, you know, which they have now, but it only come out then, you know. Emergency rations. There might be a bar of chocolate, you know. The Americans in their … they even had a little bit of toilet paper and they … you know, the Yanks had everything, so we was on Yankee food. So, while you were moving around, did you have to carry your Bren gun in parts or did you em … was that coming … ? No, it was always assembled, you know, ready for … see they could ambush you, like, there was lots of ambushes. So, how was it carried? Oh, you would carry it by the handle, you know. Ok. Or carry it over your shoulder with the … carrying it by the barrel, you know, which would never do in Australia, you would get into trouble. But you didn't have any … well what will I say, eh 'bulldust' in the field, you don't … you don't have to swing your arms and be … you know. Did you always fight just with the Australians, or were you actually fighting with the Americans as well? Well, we had em near us. We didn't fight with em, we had Canadians near us too. We had a Canadian … for instance Pat Light Infantry, they were near us, but … There were 26 nationalities involved, how many of them did you actually work with? Well, we saw the Yanks, we saw the Indians and that had a few … they didn't have combat troops, they had field ambulance, you know, like for the wounded, the Swedes had a hospital ship anchored out there. I think the Italians had a hospital ship, the Filipinos had infantry. Even from South America they had Columbians, from South America. They had the Turks - the Turks were very ferocious, even over there. You told me a story about ANZAC Day and … ..? Yeah, we were going over a bit of the (jeez, I nearly said something) a booze up any rate. We was gonna make friends with them, you know, and have a bit of a tellin' … a bit of, you know, and tell tales and they would have probably told us about their fathers in Gallipoli and I suppose the blokes who had fathers that was there would have told them and … would have had to have an interpreter you know, but then all of a sudden the Chinese, by that time the Chinese had come and see it was only North Koreans at one time and then the Chinese came into it. Uha. And I must say that in my book they are pretty good sort of soldiers, you know. They … see we didn't have many air raids, we used to have what we called a 'bed check Charlie' used to come around of a night and he would drop a couple of mortar bombs, I think. He would let them go, drop them over the side in a little bi-plane thing, you know, but the old Chinaman, and that he was gettin' … he was gettin' bombed and you know from the air. There is one thing … So finish the story about ANZAC Day before you go on. Yeah, well we were getting ready to have, you know, this was … painted the stones white and I think we was in a bit of an orchard. It was alright too and we were gonna, well sort of have a barbecue sort of thing and a pow wow with the Turks and then a message come through, pack up, you know, it's on. So the next thing, we didn't have that, we took off into the hills. I was in Don Company and we went oh, on the right hand side and there was A Company, C Company and B Company, you know. And then we took up our positions and we dug our, you know, it was pretty hard diggin' too in the ground, dug our weapon pits and that, you know, and then we waited for the attack, because … Is this the Battle of Capyong? That is the Battle of Capyong, you know, where we lost … we lost quite a few there. I think, I think 2 or 3 got taken prisoners from there. Ah well, I will have to tell you a funny story about I … there's bears in Korea and … this was at the Battle of Capyong. While we were there waiting this night, before it erupted, we were there, you know, waiting in the cold still air, you know, and the bear jumped out of the tree not far from me and Jesus, I reckon I had to change, well I would have, but I didn't, have to change me underwear you know. This bear jumped out of the tree and it frightened 10 months growth out of me. Did is escape alive? It got away, yeah. Which was good for it, I suppose, wasn't it? Did you see the enemy often, or was it … Yeah, seen them there, you know, but … yeah, they seen us and we seen them, you know, but … Did you have any difficulty knowing who were the enemy and who were civilians? Oh at Capyong there wasn't many civilians, you know, it was pretty remote. You didn't see many at Capyong. Other places you seen the civilians, you know, in their villages, but Capyong they were mostly all Chinese and North Koreans. At Capyong. Uha. That … see later on, when I wasn't there, it became static, which you would be … if you could get someone that could tell you about when they were in bunkers all the time and they would come out of bunkers, like rats out of the … and go out on patrol and come back. But not while you were there? Not very much of that, you know, we … in another 12 months it became … they were feeling each other out, you know, the Chinese. Apparently, they would send patrols out and the Australians would send patrols out and there would be ambushes, you know, and … and the Australians would try and catch us and imprison us. Go out of a night and try and get some prisoners and find out what is going on, you know. But in the time you were there, it was most … you were mostly on the move, you were advancing then? Mostly, we were moving all the time. Advancing? Yeah, and sort of … there was a bit of a bug-out … what the Yanks called bug-outs … and they got on … they swept right down the Chinese, the North Koreans and Chinese. 'Cos the South Koreans, they … they … that is when this big breakthrough came, the South Koreans who were … they sort of took off, you know. And the North … North Koreans … So were you fighting with South Koreans? Oh, not actually. They were on another part, you know, but at Capyong. Did you have much contact with them? Oh yeah, you know, they had some attachments to every battalion, you know, that could speak Korean and could speak English, you know, all that sort of thing. I believe later they had quite a few. How do you feel about working with the Koreans? Did you prefer to have them there or did you prefer to have just have the people you knew, your own men? Well actually you didn't have many of them, you know, you had - you didn't have many of them. We had, when the Battle of Capyong was on - we had New Zealand artillery. New Zealand … we didn't have artillery in the Australian Army at that time because, as I said, they were run down. They let the army go … but anyway, we had New Zealand artillery and they were number one artillery. They could land a shell, you know, right where we wanted them to land it. And then as the battle progressed, that is when me mate got knocked off, you know. We did make a withdrawal there because me mate had a coat that had been sent to him. We left that behind. We got … we had to, you know, they came in such … blowin' whistles and bugles and that, you know, and throwing stick grenades and all that sort of thing and then there was a bit of confusion. The American planes came over and they were what they call a Corsair. They had gold wings these planes and I knew they were American. Which see, when you get … I don't know what they do now, when you are in close proximity you put air … iridescent air panels out, so that tells … if they are coming over to do a bombing raid or drop Napalm, which they did do, they knew where we were 'cos they wouldn't drop it on us. But this particular … they dropped it on Don Company, these couple of American planes made an error and they dropped it on our Company and a few people got burnt, you know, because Napalm is jelly petrol. Once it hits the ground. And then there was a bit of confusion. So then they radioed to the New Zealand artillery and they had just gone to, you know, which, you know, just as well we had the artillery there, because there was a bit of confusion. Like getting done over by your own plane, you know. So someone would have got a kick in the bum for that I think. Were you injured at all? No, I was pretty lucky actually, pretty lucky. Oh yeah. How long did the battle last? Oh, a couple of days I think. Pretty intense it was. There was a couple of companies had more. We was on the right flank, you know, on a pretty high part. You could see the Chinese, you know. Some blokes said it was like a rabbit shed, you know. Reg Saunders said that … the aboriginal bloke … he said it was like out shooting rabbits he said. But some companies, I think A Company, got a lot of casualties, you know. But I will never forget that, seeing our planes drop these silver canisters, you know, and just come down and went 'woosh' and it just spreads everywhere, you know. But we did get some on us, but it never ignited. But when it ignites see … I knew one bloke, I don't know, I haven't seen him for years, I don't know what happened to him actually, he got all disfigured, you know. I just forget his name now, 'cos he got burnt. How were the injured collected? Oh you carried them out by stretcher to a … You said that there were helicopters. Yeah, but the helicopter was just coming into it. Not like Vietnam. They were different helicopters. They would put a … what we call litters … one each side, a person each side when they took them out, you know. But most of the injured had to be carried out on stretchers? Yeah, carry them out on stretchers, yeah. Where did you take them to? Oh they would take them to a field, what they call a field dressing station, you know, back in the rear. They might get on a jeep then, you know, they had jeeps made that they could put wounded in it, you know, and they would take them back to the rear, to a dressing, what they called a dressing station and they would, if they were serious, they would take them probably back to Chimpo Airport or somewhere and then they would … they would be flown to Japan. And then the Australian nurses, they done a marvellous job, and they looked after them there, and then they might … the badly wounded ones would be sent home to Australia. After the battle did you get a break, did you go on leave? Oh no, we just sort of … we went back and had a bit of a spell, then we … Where would you have a spell? Oh, just back in the field, you know, sort of thing. Do you mean that for the whole of 8 months you never went on leave? No, no, never, no, no. They did later, they went on what they call R.& R. leave. They would send them to Japan and then they came back again or some … I think some went to Hong Kong and that, you know. You also talked about the weather, you said it was .. Cold. .. very much worse than you had ever know before. Yeah, 'cos I had never seen snow … oh I had, I had seen snow, I tell a lie, I had seen it in Japan, but when you are in the hole in the ground, you know, it is pretty rugged. And when you didn't really have the right winter clothing, you know. So how did you make do, what did you do? Oh, well you used to wear, you know, you had big great coats, you know, army overcoat and that . I don't know … END OF SIDE A, TAPE 1 SIDE B, TAPE 1 I don't know now, it just sort of … just kept warm, tried to, you know, 'cos there would be two of you in this pit. You would do 2 hours on … like what I am saying is I would be looking out there for 2 hours. I think it was 2 on and 4 off. And then when it was my mate's turn, I would wake him up and say righto you keep your eyes open now and I would have a, you know. And you would eat your rations? Yeah. … at that time too? Yeah, yeah, just, you know. Did you light fires? Yeah, but on the reverse slope you would … because … what I mean by that … say there was a hill there, well you would be on this side on the reverse slope, so as 'Old Charlie' couldn't sort of see where you were. How did you cope with toileting? Oh you just dug a hole in the ground, you know. How did you … ? … and freeze your bum off too in the winter. How did you manage with washing? Oh, you just sort of, you know. Might wash them in a creek or something like that you know. Didn't used to worry about it much, you know. It was alright if you didn't like washing, didn't have to, you know. Alright, yes. So you didn't bother to shave under those circumstances? Oh you still had to, you know. They still pretty, still pretty strict on shavin'. You know, you had to be … but you didn't have to polish your boots and all that. I was up on a hill and, you know we wear gaiters, you know what gaiters are now? Yes. We were goin' out on a patrol and I wont name the officer, I don't know whether he had the (??2.2) on me or not, but anyway, they come right down from the top of the hill ready to go out on patrol and he spotted me with no gaiters on and he said, "Private Egglestone, get back up there and get your gaiters on." And I thought, well Jesus, if I am going to get shot, it doesn't matter whether I had gaiters on or not, did it really. But he … and I had to go back up there and put these bloody gaiters on and then come back downhill again. How did orders travel when you were so isolated like that? Oh, radio, field packs, you know, radio, you had signals. They carried a big, actually if you carried one and then you got a … . well they wouldn't today, I don't know what they have today, but a big aerial and that draws the crowds, you know. The enemy sees that, they would go … they know he is the radio man, you know. I don't think they have … it would be a big aerial, you know, on your pack. He would be carrying that on his back. Not everyone would have that. Signallers, they all had Signallers, you know, it was radio and that. What was the worst thing that happened while you were there? Oh the worst thing I reckon was when the … when the Yankee planes came over and dropped the Napalm on us, you know. You ex … well, we didn't land any air attacks, we were lucky really. They didn't have any, but we didn't have air attacks on as much - I don't think we had any air attacks if I remember, except that little bi-plane used to come round, and made a nuisance … we called him 'Bed check Charlie', you know. Come round about 11.00 o'clock at night, just to annoy you, I think. Well, in the midst of all this, were there any good things that happened? Oh, funny things, you know. Tell us some good things, what are the things that you remember with affection or pleasure? I remember mateship mostly, you know. Looking after one another. You know, you know, someone would get a letter from home, you know. They would tell you things, you know. Some blokes never used to get, you know, like never used to get mail and the other ones did and they 'd say "Oh, what's goin' on", you know and … oh different little things. I found mateship was the best thing that I found. And as I was so … I never found any … the only things they said to me, they were saying that in the … in joking you know, I never found any whatsitsname? Any racism. No. Cant say I found … cant say I found any of those … those black bastards or some … some young kids joking. And I used to tell them things too you know. You would give it back, but it was only in fun, you know. I would just say, "Oh I am not black, I am only brown" you know and then we would have a laugh and that you know. But you would laugh over … even in the heat of battle you could laugh over different things. But Jesus Christ, you know, you know, something little thing would go on, someone would trip … someone would trip over somethin' you know, over a bloody stone or something and everyone would laugh and that, you know. Is that tension release, that sort of laughter? Yeah, I think so, you know. Yeah, I reckon. Mail you mentioned, did you get regular mail? How often … ? Yeah, I thought the mail was pretty good. I thought the mail was for the … Came regularly did it? Yeah, pretty well. For the rugged countryside and that and how they had to get it there, you know, yeah I thought it was pretty good. You might find different, other blokes might tell you different, but everyone has got a different story, you know. Did you write letters home? Oh yeah, now and again, you know, when I … in between … Were you married by this stage? Yeah, yeah. In between em … oh what would I say … (??6.9) the noggies, we used to call them noggies, you know, the Chinese. Do you know where that name came from? Don't know, I think it might have … don't know, because I have … I think they called them in Vietnam, I think. I don't know where that name came from, but what … and we called our little humpies 'hoochies', you know, where we used to dig a hole in the ground and that, you know. They were 'hoochies'. And then suddenly you got bad news from home and rushed off home. Yeah, I was. Were you pleased with the way you were looked after under those circumstances? Like, I didn't expect, you know, it was suddenly … I nearly lost me wife, you know. And eh … But they were quite happy to give you this, to take you home? Oh yeah, yeah, they eh … well I was out in the front line, the next minute I was back in a … "Egglestone" they said "get all your gear, we are taking you back to base" you know and they told me you know. And eh … I nearly … … flew you straight home? Flew me to Japan and yeah, then we island hopped, you know, from there to Okanawa, then to Manilla, and then to Darwin. I nearly lost me wife, you know, but it was one of those things, you know. You know, you don't want to what was … . do you? No, no, that is not important. Ok, so you got a discharge at that point? Yeah. And that was the last of your being part of the army, Yeah … but you joined the organisation though, didn't you? Oh yeah I joined the Korean Veterans' Association, you know. When was that formed? Were you one of the first to join? Oh yeah, I think that was formed in … around '51, '52. Been going a long time. But we weren't … we didn't push for things, you know. The Vietnam Vets pushed 'cos they were conscripted. The majority of them were conscripted and they … I have talked to some of them and they said they conscripted us, so we go … the pensions and that, you know. I can understand it. See we were all volunteers and regular army. So what was the main function of the Korean Veterans' Association? To look after the … you know, look after you. A welfare kind of function? A welfare you know, if someone is sick in hospital, someone goes out to see him and little functions, get-togethers, we all went … well we all didn't gather, 6 bus loads went to Canberra for that memorial they put there, 50 years after they eventually got that there. Well 6 bus loads of us, bus loads of us went there. The government didn't pay for that, we paid for our own fares and everything. They put on a bit of a thing there when we got there at the Korean Embassy and that, they put on a few things. I have been to a few things at The Shrine, the Korean … they got a sort of a choir and they sang some songs there the other … oh 3 or 4 months ago there was a woman there who had never met her father. He was 48 years of age when he went to Korea, he had been right through The Middle East. 48 years of age and he was there a month and this ... she has grown up now ... and she … they'd put on a thing for her, you know, she had never met her father and they put this thing on at The Shrine for her which was, you know … 48, he was pretty old wasn't he, put his age down I think. Yes, he must have. So, have you been, have you taken any role in the Korean Vets? No, I just … You are just a member? I am just a … you know. And the RSL, did you join the RSL as well? Yeah, joined the RSL, yeah. Joined the RSL, I joined the RSL when I got out the first time you know. So you have been a member of the RSL for quite a long time? Yeah, I have been a member, I have been a member of the RSL. Did you find any kind of discrimination within the army itself? No I never, no, never found any. I never. Right. But there was in parts of New South Wales, they couldn't get into the RSL without in the … Oh those country areas, Walgett and Moree and that, they, they had been overseas, but they didn't want to let them into the RSL. But people don't like to say that now, you know. Our friend, I wont mention names, he doesn't like you to say those things, our Leader, but it did go on. Were you a member of a particular branch of the RSL? Yeah. Which one? I am a member of Reservoir now, but I was a member of Coburg years ago, because we lived in Coburg. Did you use the RSL facilities much? What as … ? Did you go to the club, did you … ? Yeah, I got mixed up in different things, you know. We had clubs within the club, angling, well what did we … ? It was like people … people put the RSL as a … which it probably was for some time … someone will go 'crook ' at me about this, but we used to drink a lot of beer, you know, one time at the RSL, but now, we are all getting older and the … we are getting Associate Members and that you know and Social Members. Eventually, I think, eventually if we don't keep having wars or … they will become sort of citizens' clubs. The servicemen … see now, when I joined it you had to be a returned serviceman. You couldn't join it, you had to be in the army … say someone had been in the army 6 years of the war and for some reason he had been sent over to West Australia and up north and done a few years there, when he got discharged, he couldn't join the RSL. Because I know blokes and they will never join the RSL. Because of that, they wouldn't … then they wouldn't take them. But then a few years, 10 years ago they took, if you had had, you know if you done 3 months at Puckapunyal, you could wear the RSL badge and all. Do you march on ANZAC Day? Yeah, I march on ANZAC Day, yeah. Have you noticed changes in ANZAC Day? Yeah, I think they are coming back. I think the people … I think the young ones are eh … the young ones seem to be taking an interest in it now, I really do, which is good. And I think, I think the RSL is doing this, is going around, you know, to schools and that and telling your story and that. You know, we went up to (??14.4) a couple of years ago and a couple of ex sailors, a couple of ex … and we told a few stories you know, and the kids were all interested. But I go into the Remembrance Day. I generally go in there rather than go to me club and go in there to The Shrine ceremony, you know, 'cos I find it is eh … and then I always go to the Dawn Service in the city. But this year we are goin' to Sydney. Korea is mostly, in the public mind, I guess MASH is the way people think of Korea. Yeah, they think of it that way, you know. Would you like to comment on that? Do you think it is a fair enough representation? You know what, I hardly every watched MASH - there you go. I wouldn't have watched, I wouldn't have watched half a dozen … Was that because you felt it was all wrong or just not interested in it? I thought it was American bulldust you know, a lot of it. 'Cos, you know, I don't know the … see we couldn't afford to lose a lot of men, but the Americans, they would just push them in, you know. And I think, like when we started to lose men in Vietnam the public didn't like it, you know. But the Americans, they lost that many thousands and thousands in Korea you know. They lost thousands and you know, they don't worry about losing them. As long as they take the position they want, you know, bugger the men sort of thing. As long as they get it. You made a comment earlier about if we don't have any more wars. Is that something that is important to you, that we should not have any more wars? Yeah, you know. I would just like to see that, now, you know, you mellow you know. I wouldn't go out in the … I really wouldn't go out and shoot a rabbit now out in the paddock. And I have sort of, you know, I feed the birds in the backyard and … I just, well I hope there is not any more wars for all the … little. You see the little kids and that and you think, jeez, I wonder what it is going to be like, you know, whether there is going to be any more wars. I just hope there isn't, you know.
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Victorians at War - Oral History Project