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Deborah Phillips Transcript of interview by Ina Bertrand 9 January 2001 - tape 1 (54 mins 28 secs)
Flight Lieutenant Deborah Phillips interviewed at Hoppers Crossing, 9th January, 2001. Hi! That is ok Tell us about your very early life. Ok, my name is Deb Phillips and I was born at the Royal Womens in Brisbane on 1st November 1965. We only remained in Brisbane for about 4 years after I was born. My father was a carpenter and got a job working in Torres Strait Islands, so we moved up there when I was 4 years of age and my mum proceeded then to have my 2 brothers. And we lived up there for 17 years travelling to through to different islands and onto the mainland of the Torres Straits; and then when I finished high school I went to the mainland in Townsville, became a nurse. It was actually a toss up whether to become a nurse or join the Air Force. I was accepted for both and decided I would try the nursing option. Little did I know that 11 years later, after doing everything that I could in nursing, that I would end up in the Air Force anyway, which is what I did on 31st March 1995, I joined the Air Force. Good, well now, tell us about the nursing first. Where did you train? I trained at the Tanderra (??1.3) General Hospital. I did it back when we used to do it through the hospital system. I did that and, after I completed my training, I actually went back to one of the aboriginal communities that Mum and Dad were working at and worked there for a year - bit of a … give a little bit back to the way I was brought up. After that I went down to the Gold Coast. That is where the other half of my family are and proceeded to work down there and realised that the way that nursing was evolving, I had to get a degree. So I actually went back up to Rockhampton and spent 3 years studying health science up there, obtained my degree, went back down the gold coast and thought, goodness me, what am I doing? My brother had subsequently joined the army, was going, "you have got to come join me, but you are not allowed in the army", and I applied for the Air Force and got it. And you have got specialist training too, haven’t you? Talk about that. Where did you do that? I did that at the Gold Coast Hospital. They did a combined course there where you did accident emergency and intensive care nursing, which is what I did. And then, the year before, the year before last, I actually went back and did a formal certificate in intensive care as well. What made you become a nurse? I don’t really know. I never really wanted to be a nurse growing up. I was never one of these type of people that go, "yes, I want to be a nurse, I want to be a doctor." My auntie though was a nurse and my great grandmother was a nurse. It just seemed like a good idea at the time. That was one of those things. I actually wanted to be an archaeologist and .. but somehow applied for nursing. Whether friends of mine were doing it at the time, and found I liked it and basically .. What (??3.1) I think the social contact. I am a very social person and I think I like that. I also like that it is some thing you do … it is a job you have to think about, it is not just, you know, round holes being fitted with round pegs. Some days the square pegs actually do fit in the round holes. You really … everybody is different, every situation is different. I find I like to have a little bit of ...not excitement, but challenge in my job and I really find that, especially with intensive care and accident emergency nursing, it is like that, you are always on the go, it is always busy, you are always just challenging yourself and just stretching yourself that little bit further. And this doesn’t worry you, the trauma? No, no, not at all. That you deal with? No, I have never been a squirmish person whatsoever, that doesn’t bother me, but if I saw … I could never be a vet … if I saw a puppy with a cut, that would be it, I would be an absolute raving mess, but no, when it comes to my work, it doesn’t bother me at all. At yet in the end you decided it wasn’t enough, you must have, to go into the Air Force. Yes, I had got to the stage where, once I had finished university and went back, I worked my way - over 2 years - up to being a charge sister and in the system, once you get to that level, it is either you basically stay there or you go back and like to a business degree and get into the administration side and I thought, um, you know, it is not what I wanted and I love the idea of aero medical evacuation - the aviation side of things, and I had lots and lots of friends who were also in the military anyway. For some reason I have always had army and Air Force friends and between them and my brother, it just seemed like the right thing to do and it is … What about your brother? As in … ? What was the connection? Oh, my brother is in the army and he is actually Special Forces, so he leads this gung ho amazing lifestyle and I am thinking oh, I want a piece of that and you know. Ok, so how did you go about joining the Air Force? What did you do? Um, I basically just went out to RAAF base at Amberley, outside of Brisbane, 'cos I had friends of mine who were (??5.3) pilots out there and said, "What do I do?" And they went, "Come with me" dragged me up to the hospital there and there was a Squadron Leader up there (I can’t even remember her name now, which is really, really, rude) and she sat me down and she said, "Ok, this is the way it is" and basically told me all the bad things associated with nursing in the military, as well as all the good things, and she said, "Are you still interested?" and I went "Yep." She went, phone this person in recruiting, which is what I did. Can you remember what those bad things were? Yes, basically, she was telling me that it is the first 3 years, because I am a Flying Officer, even though in the civilian world I was, you know, had a degree, I was a charge sister, it means nothing. Like when you join, it is like, you are going right back to basics again. Uha. And she said the main thing was as if … you have got to … . not forget all your skills, but basically let them have a bit of a break for a couple of years and concentrate on the things you don’t know about, which is the military, which you don’t have a clue. She said, she said, concentrate on the military for 3 years and nursing as your sideline and she said you will find within the next few years, it all blends in together. Which I found it did really well. So you then had to go into military training then? Yes. And where did you do that? I did that down here in Melbourne out at OTS training - there saying it again - Officer Training School, out at Point Cook. Tell us about that, what did it entail? Ok, it is 15 weeks and it is basically .. it’s … it teaches you how to be an officer. It teaches you all the skills for leadership, how to cope with being an officer and also the basic military skills, how to dig a pit, how to do pickets, how (I don’t know), to.. Weapons training? Yep, yep, definitely, yeh we did weapons training. All aspects of being an officer. Um, the RAAF is different to the army; in regards to the army you have RMC - The Royal Military College - where you are there for 18 months, but if you are medical you are not. Medical in the army do a different course where it is basically only a 6 week introductory course, while the Air Force, all officers do all the same training, there is no differentiation between medical and other corps. Right. Did you live on the base at that time? Yeh, we were committed to live off, so for the first 5 weeks you are not permitted to leave base. So it is basically 35 days straight of them trying to wear you down a bit. It is basically the old fashioned, you know, get em in, break them and then you know, make them the way that you want to be made. Can you remember any incidents that were intended to break you? Um, I think there were, bit I had just come back from back-packing through Europe and living in some of the most hovels you have ever seen in your life, and here is me, you know , staying in half decent accommodation, even when we "went bush" it was in hoochies, I am going, "Yeh" you know, "this is great!, you know I am just loving this." And I think I must have said it one too many times and it was Flight Lieutenant Huxstep, Nigel Huxstep, who is now a Squadron Leader, he was one of our commanders there, he em took offence to me, I think, a little bit when we first started because I was a bit of a, you know, bring it on type of a person and it was one of the first exercises and I just got hammered. Every single dirty job, I got it, but I thought no, no, keep going, keep going, and, in the end he’s … you know … became somebody that we could really rely on and … no, it was good. Ok, was it just military training nothing else, no other kind of general education or nursing? No, no. They teach basic first aid in all courses like that, but that is the only bit of nursing. Ok. And after that training, what then? Ok, I was posted to 3 RAAF Hospital, outside of Sydney, and I spent about two and a half years there and they were fantastic years. When I first went there it was where the old hospital was and there was only … not very many nurses when I first joined. There was only 48 of us in total throughout Australia and 3 Hospital was the centre of our medical evacuations. Everything went through there, so we spent two and a half years of basically, when we weren’t on course, we were off doing AME’s like to Fiji, always going to Lord Howe Island. AME? Aero medical evacuations where you have got an injured patient that you go up and retrieve and bring them back. Ok, are these military evacuations or … ? Yes. Only military? No, the majority … 99% are military, but Norfolk Island … there is something with our government or the Australian government and the Norfolk that any member or … I should say, any civilians requiring any lifting out, we actually do it and we did that a lot. What sort of … what were the range of things you dealt with? Ok, it ranged from where we had patients severely bent from diving off Fiji where we had to actually have them under compressed oxygen to get them back to Australia, to a little old lady actually falling over an Avocado Tree on Norfolk Island. You know, there was quite a diverse range. Also, when the Black Hawk incident happened in Townsville, we had to bring them back to we brought those back on 7 0’s. And you spent two and a half years there? Uha. You said something about 3 years of training, Was this all part of this military training? No, 3 years, that probably would have been at university when I went … No, no you mentioned that the … when you first went to go into the Air Force the officer that you spoke to said it would take you 3 years. Oh yes, in regards to that the first 3 years when you are in military you remain a Flying Officer - it is on time promotion to Flight Lieutenant. And it is basically .. when you are a Flying Officer you are a bobby, you are "Teflon coated" - everything just slides off you, but it is the time where you can make your mistakes and people just go "Oh, they are a Flying Officer they are supposed to, you know, totally 'stuff up’ and you cant really yell at them too much." But when you become a Flight Lieutenant people don’t know whether you have been in 3 years or 13 years, so that is when you have to really start taking a bit more responsibility, so what you do is you make the most of being a Flying Officer. How did you make the most of it? By not getting in too much trouble. I basically … my Squadron Leader at 3 Hospital was Squadron Leader Betty Howell and she is a fantastic lady. She is subsequently out of the military now, but I know that she is still living in Sydney. Very, very motivated lady and I just basically followed her everywhere. Anything she wanted done, I did. Also when I was at Richmond, you have what is called … each squadron has a squadron medical element which consists of a doctor, a nurse and a medic. and basically you care for the medical requirements of the squadron. If they have to be deployed or go on exercise, you normally go with them. When I got to Richmond there was only, I think, there was 7 0’s and also the army unit that was there, 176. So Despatch were the only ones that didn’t have a squadron medical element, and one of the girls that I got posted in with, she didn’t want anything to do with the army, and because I had had a fair bit to do with the army I went, "Oh no, that’s ok, I’ll go with the army." And it was fantastic! It really was. I learnt a lot. I went away on their adventure training with them and helped them do a lot of training and just learnt the ways of the army as well. What do you mean by helped them training? Ah, first aid training, when we used to go out on adventure training, just as in just normal training as well. Physical training, go over and join them for the physical training sessions. Was there ever such a thing as a typical day when you were a … . in Richmond? Em … no, I don’t think there really was. It was a very, very busy time. If, the first year I was in my unit, I was only present at the unit for 32 days, so, yes, you just, I was always away. I did a couple of relief mannings for 6 and 4 week periods in Edinburgh in South Australia, so I got to go everywhere and just do everything. How did you live when you were travelling like that all the time, did you have a bag packed ready to go? Basically yes, medical you always do. My bags at the moment are always packed in the shed, and that is just the way you are. You have your flying kits and they are always packed. Normally you leave them at work, but because we are re-deploying again this year, I have given it all an air out and re-packed it Ok, alright, what happened after Richmond? Richmond, I got, came, I am just trying to think of my timings here, I got offered the postings at Tindall, which is at Katherine, in the middle of the Northern Territory, and contemplated and then three days later I thought "yeh, why not?" and I got up to Katherine and I was there for about 12 months and got very, very involved in the military. Especially up there, it is a jet fighter base, and it is just like the centre of the fighter world really because we do a lot of exercises with the Americans, Singaporeans get involved and it is very dynamic, and I discovered that I really did like aviation. I just loved the aviation side of things, so I thought "em, I might give this a go" so I actually applied to become an Air Traffic Controller or a Navigator. Still within the Air Force? Yep, yep. I find the Air Force, it is very much like a big blue safety net underneath you. If … I feel that I am in the Air Force, and I love it, but if I am willing to go and try something else within the Air Force, then they will support you and if you 'stuff up’ or if you don’t like it - which is what I found when I went over to Air Traffic, they will let you come back to what you were So you spent a year in Air Traffic? No, I spent about 8 months in Air Traffic. Right. I went down East Sale and did the training and just realised that it definitely wasn’t for me. I loved the knowledge side of things though. Air Traffic is a very dynamic world to be in, with the aviation side of it all, but it just wasn’t for me. I really didn’t find … I needed the contact, I needed the people and also going away and doing something else, I realised that I was actually really good at my other job, which is nursing, so … Ok, describe what you did on Air Traffic. Studied lots, basically. And made some very good friends. Learned about myself. I actually came away from Air Traffic realising that I am a lot more intelligent than I thought. And em .. So were you just training for the whole of that time or were you actually working on … ? No, just training. Yes, it is 6 months training for Air Traffic. Alright. So then you came here? Yes, got posted.. Well I didn’t have an option actually for my postings. Basically, it was please, please, please take me back to nursing and they said, "Well, you have to go 6 Hospital." It was the only place that had a position for a Flight Lieutenant and there was no way I wanted to go. To everybody who knows about 6 Hospital, it has always been considered to be the most bluntest pogue unit in the RAAF. It just goes nowhere, does nothing, has a bad morale and I am just going "no, please don’t." Where is 6 Hospital? 6 Hospital is located on the outskirts of Melbourne at RAAF Base Laverton, or RAAF Williams at Laverton. Describe it, what is it like? It is a very small base. It now has the School of Langs in it, but beforehand it was basically had a couple of big grey sponge type buildings that housed engineers or logistics people and that was it. So what does 6 Hospital really mean, in terms of buildings for instance and facilities? Ok, 6 Hospital is a 30 bed hospital and we operate every day - sometimes twice a day. We deal with everything from orthopaedics right through to plastics. Ent, gastro, everything. It is really quite a busy hospital because we also service - it is now a tri-service environment - where we service all military members in the State of Victoria area. We don’t have any intensive care facilities, but we have got facilities to actually look after high dependency patients. How many people, how many staff? We have 104. Can you tell me how that is distributed? I don’t know the exact breakdown, but you always have your headquarters staff, which is our Commanding Officer and … I am just trying to think. We have got probably 3 or 4 Squadron Leaders in that area. Our Squadron Warrant Officer and also a Sergeant. You have got the … like our logistics flight which also incorporates our pharmacy, we have got a dental flight, we used to have the PTI’s- the physical training instructors - but they are no longer with us now, they have actually underneath a different cell. The surgical ward, operating theatre, outpatients and we have also got civilian doctors that work for us, as well as our own military doctors Any other civilian staff or just those doctors? No, we have actually got some nursing civilian staff that work for us, but they are basically to fill in, because we do have a lot of members because we were rotating through Bougainville, as well as Timor. Now we find ourselves very short and they just supplement out staff. Ok. Is there a typical day there? Yes, it is a lot more routine down this end of the world in that we operate every day, we have got outpatients every day, we have got certain days where we had students come through, certain days we had lang students come through. It is a lot more ordered down this end of the world. But you don’t live on the base? No, no, I live out at Hoppers (??19.1) Crossing. I have just bought this house within the last year. Do people live on the base, others in this part? Yes, yes, there are. A majority of the officers actually live over at the Point Cook area because Point Cook is only 7 k’s away from the base, but a lot of the airmen live at Laverton 'cos there is like condos for the airmen. What made you choose to live away? Eh, after … because when I was at Richmond, I lived on base, but I actually had a flat on base. They used to be the old married quarters which they allowed the single members to have. Then at Tindall you don’t really have an option, it is basically you have to live on base and when I came down here I thought, I can’t do it, I need my own home, so I got this place and I thought it is cheaper to pay a mortgage than it is to pay rent, and ended up here. Ok. Now, obviously 6 Hospital is where the overseas postings come from is it? As in … ? You get sent overseas from here? You get sent overseas, no matter what position you are in From anywhere? From anywhere, yes. Traditionally, 6 Hospital has never been a deployable unit. It has always been 3 Hospital at Richmond where all deployments come from, but within the last year we have seen where, with the first contingent going into Timor. But you went to Cambodia? Yes, that is when I was at Richmond in 1997. Right. Tell me a bit about that. How did you find out that you were going? I had actually come back from an exercise and with medical you are always on standby to go somewhere, you always happen to be … you know 24 hours’ notice to move, 14 hours’ notice to move, 7 and you become very blasé sometimes about it and I remember coming back from an exercise and I had stuff everywhere, it was covered in mid and I thought, "Oh gosh, ok, I will get called up" … as soon as we arrived back, it is like, you know, into the CO’s office, ok, you are on 14 hours’ notice to move … going to Cambodia … you will be informed more - rah, rah, rah. Basically went home going yeh, yeh, whatever and had stuff strewn all over the house, had friends over for dinner that night and there was a big group of us having drinks, just enjoying ourselves immensely. The next minute the phone rings - it was at midnight - got to be at air movements 8 o’clock tomorrow morning, you are going into Cambodia, and we are just going "No." So I had people washing kit for me, running up and down stairs trying to dry clothes. 8 o’clock in the morning, they were all over there waiting to go. Right, what did you have to take with you? Basically only our packs with our kitting and 1(??21.4) bag. What goes in your kit? Everything that you require to live basically, so, all your toiletries, something to sleep on … that you need. Uniform? Yes, but you wear (??21.6) when you go bush, so .. and also flying suits. Explain that. Destructive Pattern Camouflage Uniform, it is the … yes. It is what you always see the army in, which is what we wear as well, or our flying suits Ok. Any medical material you have to take with you, or is that all done for you? No, no, no, no. We take all our own kit. We have special palletised kitting that is already done, so if you are going on a … just a straight like strategic AME, then you have a certain kitting that you take with you and it is all like, you know, documented kitting. Em, if you are doing something a little bit bigger, then you take more with you. When we went to Cambodia we actually took a flyaway surgical team as well which is basically a (??22.2) and our own stuff, em ..um … correction.. emergency evacuations as well. How many of you went? In total we had 6 in total with the doctors for the surgical team and there was about 10 of us, 10 other medical, that is a combination of nurses and medics. Where exactly did you go? We went to … we based at Butterworth and what we did was we flew sorties in and out of Cambodia going from Butterworth to Phnom Phen, then coming back out of Phnom Phen to Penang, dropping off the civilians we had … and the Australians that we had taken out and then doing round trips again. So it was an evacuation? Yes it was. And that means that not everybody was needing medical attention? No, no, basically the reason why we were there. The surgical team was there in case of, basically if anything does go untoward and we are required to operate on people, but mainly it is each aircraft required some form of medical personnel in it, just in case, if we are mid-flight and somebody has, you know, a cardiac arrest or starts throwing up. Just little things like that because we had so many people in the aircrafts, it was very packed in tightly, had a lot of people getting … hyperventilating and things like that. How do you work as a team? You mainly have small teams in that you have a doctor, nurse and a medic. Basically you know you roles or responsibilities. A lot of times they all overlap and when you are with … when you are working with the aircraft as well, the loadmasters and everyone else becomes part of your team as well, you become part of their team. You try and all work in together. Do you work with the same people and the same team all the time? No, no you don’t. I have found that when we went over to Timor that you actually have your own … . like teams that you always work with, your resus. teams, but with doing aeromedical evacuations it is always different doctors on call, different nurses on call. But we found that when you have got people from the one unit, and that you are used to working together, it is very easy to have different combinations of personnel because you have already worked out prior, you know, your own little areas. Did you use your specialist skills? In Cambodia? No, not at all. Not, it is basically begin in the back of the aircraft ensuring that everybody survive the flight. Ok, and then your second excursion overseas was last year, 1999. Yes. How did you find out about that? Em, I was actually at work on a Saturday morning and the CEO came in, Wing Commander Hind, and she had a look of … oh … fury on her face, and just said I want 100% recall of all members of the unit, this is not an exercise, this is not a joke. So I am standing there going, okie dokie, so went through and contacted every single member of the unit, and they all had to present, and we had a meeting, I remember we had a big briefing meeting and said that yep, there are members who have been selected to go to Timor and yep. And then we found out, about half an hour after that, who had actually been selected. How many were selected? There was 13 of us that went. Out of this 140 or so? Yeh Did that cause any problems having only a few people go? Actually, no, it didn’t, I think everything happened so quickly and because it wasn’t a unit that was entering we were only going to augment 1 Field Hospital to form the one FST to go in, but 6 Hospital, whether it is because of (??25.6), she is a wonderful motivator, that everybody just got in and got us prepared and just … we were so excited that 6 Hospital actually some of us had been chosen to go somewhere, especially with the first contingent, that everybody just worked together and within 3 days we were all packed ready and on the way to Sydney. Ok, was there any difference in your preparation for Timor from the Cambodian excursion? Yes, because Cambodia we knew was only going to be, if anything, a couple of weeks, while Timor was for 6 months, so you had to be thinking long term, like we didn’t know what the mail system was going to be like. We knew that there was no buildings left over there, there was no shops, no nothing, so you have got to think, well I need enough conditioner for my hair for 6 months. I need enough soap, I need enough toothpaste, so you have to actually think long term other than just, yeh, we can get something, you know down the shop when we get there. So was there a lot of baggage to take? Well you are not going to have a lot of baggage because there is not much room really. All we are allowed to take is one trunk with us and our normal pack and that was it. And you managed? Oh yeh. Ok. How did you travel? We went to Sydney via aircraft, we went QANTAS, then we travelled as, once again, QANTAS up to Darwin. We stayed there overnight, we boarded the ''Jervis Bay" and then travelled seabound over to Timor. How much did you know about Timor before you went? Not much. Didn’t really know .. knew it existed, but didn’t really know much about it. We had a lot of briefings prior to going, so we knew what we were going to be presented with. What sort of briefings? Like medical briefings or briefings about the situation in the … .? Briefings about the situation, the history, the Portuguese, the 25 years of conflict that they have been going through, their economy, their religious beliefs. Right, what about language? Did you have translators or interpreters? We had translators.. em.. for (??27.3) when we were over there, but we were very lucky in that when we first got there, we basically adopted one of the local orphanages and what we used to do was … we used to go in the mornings, help them clear and build and what they used to do then is give us Temen lessons, so a group of us had actually had 6 months with a Temen while we were there Right, em, so what did you find when you got there? A lot of burning buildings. You landed in Dili? Yes, we landed in Dili on the 'Jervis Bay’ and as we were approaching, because we all ran out on to the decks to have a look, and because I was brought up Torres Straits it just reminded me so much of growing up there, all the palm trees and the golden sands, but as we got closer there was a lot of damage. There was a lot of burning buildings, a lot of buildings that had been totally burned to the ground, a lot of refuse all throughout the waterway at the front and just a lot of military … Burning, you mean still burning, still alight? Yes, yes there was And you landed at the harbour? Yes And then what? We boarded some vehicles, like we had to go out of (??28.2), we had to go weapons at the loaded state. At the action state actually once we got out, there was military everywhere. We got on to the back of vehicles, we were taken to the streets of Dili on our way out to the airport and half way down there is the old museum, which is where we were going to be stationed, we drew up there Describe it. Em, it actually looked quite beautiful. It is very typical Malaysian in that you have got these huge white buildings with the typical Malay type rounded rooves with all the grassing on it. Everything was very, very white. But, once again, everything was very deceptive because you might only take in like what you first see, you go "oh my gosh, this is white pristine", but then you start looking around and there is like burnt car bodies and there is … everything is just smashed and things are just burnt everywhere And inside? Inside was an absolute disaster. It was just disgusting. It was … they had destroyed everything you could possibly destroy and then had coated every bit of wall and floor with faeces and just stuff, I don’t even know what it was and, … yeh Were the remains of the museum exhibits still there? There were some that were still there, but what had happened was when the Indonesians obviously had gone through they had destroyed anything that was Timorese and with that history, they had left theirs behind, so they hadn’t touched their … like Indonesian artefacts, so what we did is like, during the next 2 weeks, we had to make this place a livable hospital. We actually got all the antiquities and put them in sheds out the back and then once we got more established, Darwin Museum came over and then catalogued them and recorded them Right, so how did you turn this into a usable hospital? A lot of disgusting work, that is all it was. It was just foul, and it was very … because when we went there, we didn’t know what we were going to, yeh, we weren’t expecting what we saw when we got there and we didn’t have any cleaning materials, we had nothing. We had shovels, which is part of our kitting, but it was funny, before we left, our Commanding Officer actually give us thick rubber … eh thick leather gloves. She said, "you never know, you may need these" and they were the best things ever because we didn’t really have to touch much. But, yeh, we just cleaned, scraped, use our shovels, just burnt lots of stuff and just cleaned as best we could, and we did So, if you didn’t have cleaning materials with you, what did you use? Did you get scrubbing brushes from somewhere or..? No, we found .. we just used what was left over around the yard and stuff. Bits of old brooms, everything like that until our stuff came in And you weren’t able to get stuff from the locals? No, no, there was just … there really was nobody around when we first got there and there was nothing … everything … all buildings in regards to shops and everything had been burned to the ground So the population wasn’t there either? No, there was very few people. Like at night you would see more roaming around … like there was still a few in the streets, like as we were driving along, but no, very … very limited people Ok, so how did you set it up as a hospital? You had the material, the equipment, the facilities with you? They arrived by ship about 2 weeks after we landed in. It was about day 14 I believe that all the equipment got there and the army have got the most amazing kit that you could ever imagine. They have got a full operating theatre, intensive care unit, high dependency ward, low dependency, dental section, a radiography section, everything. And all just folded out, fitted together perfectly and within about 48 hours we were up and running Um. Could you use the same sort of systems there as you were used to in 6 Hospital? Absolutely. In fact the army intensive care unit that I was working in has got more than what we have got back here in Australia Right. Did all that stay there? Yes it has, yep Right, ok. What about the local people? Where were your patients coming from? Was it the locals you were dealing with? Was it other support people who had arrived to help out? Well basically when we went there, we were told that we were there for the support of Interfet troops, but like I think any humanitarian exercise … well not exercise, but humanitarian that we were involved in, that even though medical is always there for support of the troops that are assisting, we always end up dealing with looking after the locals, which we found was what happened with us. We … there is … Timor is not a very rich place, so you have got a lot of disease processes that had gone … em … not looked after anyway, and that is what we had to deal with. We also had … What examples of that? Just things like goitre in the throat that just hadn’t been treated because they cant treat them. What did find, though, in those first few months was mainly basically patients of war. A lot of gun shot wounds, maschetti wounds, people who had torture like injuries, just things like that. And just normal like the big circle of life. Ladies giving birth and problems with their birth and they have had, you know, where they are unable to give birth to a child and the child has died, so you have got both lives in danger and just things like that. And because we went when the conflict started in Dili, so many of the people from within Dili fled to the countryside and up into the hills to get away from everything, it takes like 8 - 10 hours to get down off the countryside, so if you have somebody who was injured when it first started happening 2 weeks beforehand, they have been sitting up in the mountains having festering and they have to walk down for 10 hours to get to us, by the time they get to us they are in a really bad state How did the news that you were there get around? I think basically word of mouth. Once we were there and the Indonesians were no longer present in Dili, the word just spread up into the mountains and that is when we found … it started as a little trickle and the people just started all coming back What about security for the hospital? We actually did our own security. We were responsible for doing our own pickets and our own patrols The medical staff? The medical staff, yes How did you do that? We were doing it for 2 hour pickets, or patrols, and we were normally doing 2 of those per night, or, when you are not on duty, 2 of those. And it was basically putting your cavlar (??33.5) on, putting your raven on your back and going out and hoping you don’t see any bad guys A raven? That is a radio. So you were always in comms. with the main area Thank you. And did you find any bad guys? No we didn’t thank goodness, but we did have some in the compound beside us, because there was another compound beside us, and about 200 metres down the road, there was actually like a militia house, but we didn’t have any problems at all with them How did you know? Just through reports, intelligence reports, just to be aware of what was happening Do you think you treated any of the militia? Oh yes, we definitely did, yep So there was no attempt to vet who was coming in then? Not really, that is not our job. Our job is to assist people who have been injured and it is for, you know, intelligence personnel and the police - they deal with that side of it. We just heal the injured Em, was there a problem with mines in Timor, or was it not that kind of war? No, it’s not that kind of war, that is more the Rhwandans Ok. Em, were there any particular difficulties, from the medical point of view, for treating people, because of being so far away from Australia? (??34.6) was always a problem, but once we, because when we went there we had this mindset of what we were going to be treating and what we were going to require, but once we got there the picture changed dramatically, so within those first 28 days we were going, this is not what we are going to deal with, we actually need this stuff, we need these bits of equipment, that is when it was a little bit difficult, it was stretching our resources very thin, but once the first lot of re-supplies that are coming through, we will find them Ok, what did you expect and how was it different? Em … we didn’t expect to be treating so many paediatric, maternity, which is what a lot of our case load was. A lot of burns, which we didn’t really expect Ok, what happened to the patients when you were dealing with trauma and emergency, was there a hospital to which they could go? Yes, that was us. They stayed with us. We actually had a mono dependency and low dependency unit as well. Some of the patients were with us for like 5 months Right, so how big did the hospital grow to be? Huge on some days. We would have over 50 in-patients on some days And you were feeding these too? Yep How did you manage that? By working our poor cooks to the bone And these are army cooks? Yes, army cooks, yeh, they are actually from the 1 Field Hospital, they came over with us and they did a magnificent job. Like, not only did they have to feed - there was 154 of us - military personnel in the compound, but then you are looking at some days 50 - 80 of personnel being treated for injuries And sometimes special diets too, I suppose? Yes, well basically everything they could really eat Alright, did you eat local food or did you bring food in? No, we brought food in from Australia. The first month we were only on ration packs, and then once their re-supply lines became up and running we got fresh food in Right. Em, how did the locals respond? I think very grateful. They were very pleased to see us there Did you have much contact with them outside of the hospital? Yes, we did a lot of humanitarian aid trips where a couple of times a week we would travel up into the hills and do aid clinics in very inaccessible areas. We did work through the local orphanages, like the churches The same kind of thing that was happening at the hospital itself or were they different sorts of problems you were finding out outside Dili? Em, different problems outside Dili. Normally, because when we were entering the hills they didn’t have a lot of the injuries that the people down in Dili had, but they had a lot more problems like infections like Dhengi Fever and Malaria were just rife over there. Everybody has that and you have got, you know, little babies who have got these fevers and they don’t know what to do with them Em. Did you find any Indonesians at all? No, no What did you do in those humanitarian aid clinics? Did you set them up like you would do a hospital visit here, or how was it, what was it like? Yeh, it was basically, yeh, we went up there, we would take a few nursos, a couple of doctors, some medics and dental. And we would just set up. We had massive boxes of medications and Pharmaceuticals with us and basically the doctors would see the patients and if it was something that we could be dealing with then and there, then we would … . it was basically band aid treatment. It was like a lot of the things you can’t deal with, like patients with infections, like you can give them antibiotics, but they really didn’t understand the concept of having to take one a couple of times a day. That was just … they had never had to deal with that before So how do you deal with that? Basically, give them as much as you can to hit the infection on the nose and send them on their way Right. Again, language seems to be the key to all this. How did you communicate? By this stage we had been in there a couple of months and yeh, just did the pigeon English, sign language, you make each other understood Ok, how many of them spoke English? Not many. Some did, some spoke the most amazing English. Because they did have TAFFE’s and universities and everything over there, so you had some very, very educated people living in Dili, but the majority … all can speak like pigeon English, broken English How long were you there? 6 months So what changes did you see in Dili itself in the course of that 6 months? Lots of changes, so many buildings being built, people going from hardly no people in the streets to people everywhere. The markets are now fully running and I actually seeing people selling their wares by the streets, like there is markets and stalls everywhere now. Yeh, just like seeing something that went from this burning rubble to all of a sudden you can see live things springing back into it What about the infrastructure? Did you find schools starting again? They hadn’t when we left, but that is now over a year ago, so I hear from friends of mine who were there, there is cafes, restaurants are opening throughout there. There is a Harvey Norman in Dili now so obviously they are getting back on track very quickly What about their own hospital? Yes, the ICRCH took over Dili Hospital and it seems that it is underway now. Yes, the ICRCH took over Dili Hospital and it seems that it is underway now What do you mean ICR? The International Red Cross Association, they took over that Ok. And that is being run as a local hospital? Yes. It was beforehand, and looks like it is going back to as it was Right, what other sorts of changes, physical changes did you see in the streets? It got a lot cleaner, basically. They really did do a clean-up campaign. Em, I think a lot of people there are very proud of that they are finally independent and they did make the effort. Like a lot of people were trying to fix up their homes. Like you would see people trailing with bits of timber and wood and iron and everything from obviously burnt down houses to try and rebuild their own homes. Especially at Christmas. We were there for Christmas and they were very, very religious people and everywhere on the sides of the road were these big nativity scenes (and we don’t know where they got them from), but you know, beautiful scenes they had made up Were the people themselves … did you see a change in the people themselves in the way they were behaving in that 6 months? Em … I really cant say I did. There was more to do with the numbers of people, 'cos even when we first got there, the few people that we did come across, they are a very happy, smiling race and so even when we first got there, you know, would go "hello Mister". They would all be going … especially the children. The children are just so friendly and I never so any waning of that at all or any increase of it No fear? No, actually, none, except when we bring out the needles, but … no Universal isn’t it? Yes Ok, how long were you there? 6 months What about returning home? What did you do, did you have to bring anything with you, or just pack yourself. Well, to get back into Australia, we had to like scrub all our kitting because of the area that we had been in. We had to get back through Customs, so it was basically what we wanted to bring home. A lot we left over there. A lot of our clothing and toiletries, and we just left it all behind. But what we did bring back we had to scrub so it could be passed through Customs This is quarantine regulations? Yes, yes What were they afraid of? Seeding, like grass seeds, bringing back different grasses from over there. And that was about it I think Not diseases then? No, no. No, nup, we were fully inoculated before we went so there was nothing we could really bring back except for the Denghi and Malaria And what did you find when you got home? Our unit was just amazing. We got home and everybody was there to greet us from the entire unit and all our like family and friends were there. The OC of the base. >And one thing actually when we were away, is our unit never stopped supporting us. Every single week when we were away there would be a parcel arrive or a present or a letter and. Like my Commanding Officer, like I had a lot of problems with squat toilets over there and she actually got this beautiful big toilet seat carved for me with the RAAF emblem on it, and just things like that. And it just continued, even when we got back. They had barbecues and functions and unit parades for us. Nobody was ever … acted like they were jealous or that they should have gone rather than us and everybody was just proud which made us feel so good about what we had done Did another group go when you came home? Yes, actually, we did a handover takeover with the members from 3 Hospital up in Richmond. They took over from us up there and supplemented with navy And you are going back this year? Yeh, we are going back and the advanced party is going in July and that is just 6 Hospital and we will be … . I am not sure … probably navy will be augmenting us as well So it will be a larger group from 6 Hospital this time? Yes, yeh, we will be staffing all areas rather than like when we went with the army, we were just filling in where the army couldn’t. This time, we are doing the many body Right. So does this mean a different kind of preparation going in to that? Absolutely, because this time it is our unit that is going in and you’ve … instead of me just like (??4.7) on the shirt tails of the army going in … I am going along for the ride, this time it’s, you’ve got to be totally prepared, you have got to know what you need, you have got to know how to order everything, you have got to really think of all these peoples for the next 6 months and what you are going to deal with So what is your part in this? I am actually probably … going back over, when I was over there I was the officer commanding the surgical services which just means I ended up being in charge of the intensive care unit and the theatre unit and that is a position I am probably going back to fill, so I will be working with my Commanding Officer and my Nurse Admin And you will have to prepare the operating … ? Yeh, the ICU, yeh, intensive care and the operating theatre, so once the teams have been chosen who is going, then we will get together and sit down and go, ok what do we need to take with us and start doing planning and forming our own protocols At least you are going to something that is already operating aren’t you? Exactly, yeh. It is already up there, going, and the thing is like because there is probably a few of us that are going back in who have already been there, we know what we are going to as well, so it is not that you are kind of going oh I wonder if they have got this, I wonder if they have got that, you actually know How do you feel about the whole operation, do you think it was the right thing for Australia to do? Absolutely, yeh Why? I think the Australian Defence Force needed it. Em, it has made Australia as well realise that we need a better defence force. We need more money to be put into military because … I think Australians have become very complacent. It is always we are sitting here going I don’t know, we are fat, dumb and happy and then all of a sudden there is trouble near our borders and we really do have to be prepared and Timor taught us that we can be prepared and can do the job Did you feel that Australia had any special obligation to Timor? I suppose I really don’t know enough. Like I have done lots of reading and there are so many different sides of the stories, like, you know, Australia’s involvement - you know 14 odd years ago and to now and that. I don’t know whether Australia had an obligation. Perhaps Australia had an obligation to its own defence force to be involved, but I suppose I am not politically aware enough to really comment on it Ok and are you interested at all in ANZAC Day, the RSL, or do you feel that you are a serving officer and it is not time yet? As in … I don’t understand, I always go to the RSL on ANZAC Day Do you? Oh hell yes, definitely. When did you start doing that? I actually started a couple of years before I joined because my brother, being in the army, I always used to tag along with him and yeh, every single year since I have been in the Air Force Where do you go? Wherever we are we basically end up at the local RSL’s or we end up … em … areas where we know that people are going to be getting together. Like this year for ANZAC Day, because I was involved with doing some interviews with the ABC, I really couldn’t drink too much in the morning or go too far away from the Shrine, so we ended up going to Young and Jackson because that is one of the areas where we know all military people and the old diggers always meet, so that is where we stayed. And like when we were at Tindall, we all went to the RSL up there 'cos that’s where everybody went Ok. Are you a member? Yes I am and I have got my triangle little badge thingy. Alright, when did you join? Em, I actually joined a couple of years ago, I cant even remember when I did. It was on the Gold Coast actually, I think it was the RSL on the Gold Coast that I joined at Right. Do you march on ANZAC Day or does Interfet have a part in the ANZAC march? We marched last year, but because, once again, because I was involved with doing stuff with the ABC at The Shrine, I was unable to march, but I am also a VR colour custodian for the unit, so most marches I am always present at Right, have you done much, I mean has there been much recognition of Interfet as part of the forces, besides ANZAC Day, outside ANZAC Day? We have found a huge interest. It has been amazing, like especially with the local magazines and local radio stations. Very interested when we first got back as to what we have done and how we did it and Australia seems to be very supportive of what happened with the Interfet Did you have a uniform while you were over there? Yeh, we had to wear our (??9.3), just our big green baggy pyjamas that we always wear You didn’t have a special Interfet..? Oh, we had Interfet brazzards, as with, but you only wear (??9.4). The UN though is different, they wear the cap and the cravat with the bright blue But you didn’t have an equivalent of that? No, we just … no Interfet is just the brazzard OK.
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Victorians at War - Oral History Project